News Another Shooting In The Us

[Queen Boudica]

No sorry I will never be at peace with crazy people doing crazy things. I am not at peace with the crazy things my mother did to me and my sister or that my ex H tried to strangle me and punched me. No I will never accept that as being something I should be at peace with. Or the fact that kids get killed with guns every day. Not something that gives me peace.

 

[a3a2]

Lizio,

I think it is difficult to read one's tone. My tone was not meant to be hostile in my response to you. I really was asking. And, I am well aware that Australia is not in Europe. I am simply making reference to several areas of the world.

Like you, Lizio, I cannot stand violence against children. I suffered terribly at the hands of adults who were suppose to protect me, and I susspect you did as well. I have reported child abuse to the powers that be more times than I care to remember, and will continue to fight for children as long as I have breath.

Phillippa,

I am very appreciative of your willingness to examine things from a different point of view.


Do I think obesity is an issue? Yes. Do I think it will be solved by legislating the size of soda that can be sold in a particular county, or even across the country (this is actually an issue here)? No. Do I think schools should be serving healthier meals. Absolutely. I have a lot of thought on this one, but will save it for another thread.

Anthony

I too, am a big Michael Moore fan. Every time he opens his mouth, I find myself rolling on the floor laughing. As a good will gesture to Australia, I would like to bequeath him to your country.
Loner and Albatross,
I am glad to have you as neighbors.

 

[cherryblossom]

I suppose that the shootings at the Empire State building got such huge (world wide) press coverage because it happened in a tourist hot spot, compared with the other locations that Catjudo highlighted.

On August 5, seven people (including the shooter) were killed at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin. On August 13 three people, including a police officer, were shot and killed near Texas A&M University.

However that just goes to show that mass shooting in the US are more prevalent than get reported globally.

If people were more balanced they could own a gun but never feel the need to use it because they would naturally respect themselve more and therefore other life forms...and if they started using their brains and learn how to communicate effectively, they wouldn't feel the need to resort to violence...but that's a pipedream.

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment of this comment, it doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you own a gun, if you didn't intend to use it?

I guess perhaps that is where the difference lies, with different cultures. Guns are not something I was brought up with, and the thought of owning a gun or even feeling like I should own one, or wished that I could own one, for self defence or for the need to protect my property or my family frankly scares the shit out of me.

I'm in the UK, and yes there is gun 'crime' here. There will always be gun 'crime', anywhere/everywhere in the world. That is crimes committed illegally at gun point or criminals killing each other with guns due to disagreements. And also, whatever laws you place on society, occasionally guns will fall into the wrong hands and mass shootings will occur.

However, in the UK, the average person cannot get a license to carry a gun, certainly not a handgun. To obtain a firearm license in the UK, you have to prove legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership. Shot guns and rifles can be owned legally for the previous reasons stated. Self defence is not a valid reason to own a firearm in the UK. People who own a Firearm Certificate are also limited as to how much ammunition they can buy. Firearms also have to be stored in a locked cabinet when not in legitimate use. Any person holding a Firearm or Shotgun Certificate must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a licence is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. There are also other criteria that need to fulfilled before a firearms license will be granted.

Admittedly, I haven't lived in the US (only visited), but I really don't see why similar laws to the UK could not be enforced in the US. Giving people who have legitimate needs to own a firearm a license to own and use that weapon, for hunting, pest control, sport ect, but relinquishing the ownership for the average citizen, who has no need to shoot anyone or any thing.

the police shot him 10 times and injured 9 other people. What are we going to do take the police's guns away too???

Yes!! The majority of Police in the UK don't carry guns. If the Police come across a situation that involves firearms, they will call in a specialist team. Yes, it does work, because firearms incidents are a minority, because of the laws already defined.

I still don't know all the facts regarding the Empire State shooting, but it seemed from the off, that the Police themselves had caused the majority of injuries to civilians, which just goes to show how much damage a gun can cause in the wrong (untrained) hand.

I accept that guns will always fall into the wrong hands. I accept that no matter where in the world, mass shootings will occur for all sort of reasons.

But for the average Joe/Jane in the street to own, carry and be prepared to use a lethal weapon in anger scares me. Seriously scares me. I see no need for the average citizen to own a gun.

 

[The Albatross]

Thank you for quoting me Cherry B... but please refer to my comment about Tibet. The idea of monks setting themselves on fire in protest over the encroachment of China... well, I can guarantee you that it is possible just about anywhere else in the world, but it certainly won't happen in America.

My husband and our comminity here on the Gulf Coast were quite shocked during Hurricane Katrina where mandatory surrender of privately and legally owned guns were required in New Orleans. Quite a few people here said (and my own husband still maintains) he would die before he gave his gun to a representative of our government even under marshall law. Most all of those guns were never returned by the way. As a 7th generation American, I can say that I was quite shocked, though I can't actually say that I would not surrender my Colt during a natural disaster. I sure would be collecting aluminum cans to replace it post haste though.

My husband wants us to get concealed weapons permits, I don't though I like to be armed at my fishcamp and abide by our state's rules for transporting a weapon. (We have the three step rule here) Since I'm solo for this approaching 'cane, Isaac, I can assure you that my Colt will be cleaned, loaded, as well as my husband's shot gun and 20/20. Two women alone, look like easy pickin's to some trouble makers. But I'm weapons trained and ready defend my property and my safety if need be. That too is another topic for another day I expect.

 

[The Albatross]

... possible know the above basics before shooting off about gun laws when referring to Australia. The country has walked the path America have... except we stopped it as a nation because of the issues.

Ah perhaps, Anthony. Except that you are colonialists, and we are not.

 

[Loner]

No sorry I will never be at peace with crazy people doing crazy things. I am not at peace with the crazy things my mother did to me and my sister or that my ex H tried to strangle me and punched me. No I will never accept that as being something I should be at peace with. Or the fact that kids get killed with guns every day. Not something that gives me peace.

I wasn't meaning to suggest that these things should GIVE you peace, but it is the way the world is, that is irrefutable. It doesnt meant you're approving of these things, or have given up on trying to make the world a better place, it just means that you accept that the world is imperfect and unsafe, but that life is still beautiful.

I wish for you you can be at peace with the horrible things you have been through. It doesnt mean they arent sad or bad. Its similar to saying I hope you can forgive, for your own sake, the people who have hurt you. It doesnt mean you approve of their actions, just that you have let go of continuing to focus your mental energy on thinking about them and letting them continue to have an effect on you.

Do what you can to make the world a better place, and your life along with it, but you will be happier if you can accept the fact that there are a great many things outside your, or anyone's control.

 

[Loner]

Admittedly, I haven't lived in the US (only visited), but I really don't see why similar laws to the UK could not be enforced in the US. Giving people who have legitimate needs to own a firearm a license to own and use that weapon, for hunting, pest control, sport ect, but relinquishing the ownership for the average citizen, who has no need to shoot anyone or any thing.


But for the average Joe/Jane in the street to own, carry and be prepared to use a lethal weapon in anger scares me. Seriously scares me. I see no need for the average citizen to own a gun.

1. Because the right to bear arms in america has nothing to do with sporting purposes. It has to do with protection from tyranny. I know this seems silly and paranoid to many foreigners, but study some history, all stable societies fall victim to anarchy, tyranny, or invasion followed by tyranny eventually. Thats why we have the right to bear arms here, and thats why there is no requirement to show a need, because it would lead to a national registry of firearms owners, which would make it much easier for a tyrannical government to disarm the population making them subjects, not citizens. I realize this sounds utterly ridiculous to many people, but times can and do change. History repeats itself.

2. I can understand your fear, but fear is almost never a valid reason for anything. Most gun owners in the us do not own them for protection, and even most people who do carry for protection do not want to use them in anger, they simply do not want to be the victims of the kind of people who either enjoy or dont care about hurting others, which is something I think the posters on this forum should be able to relate to. I really wish every person on this forum who has been the victim of violence had been well armed enough to defend themselves at the time.

 

[cherryblossom]

Thank you for quoting me Cherry B... but please refer to my comment about Tibet.

Sorry Albatross, I didn't see your comment about Tibet. I've had a quick look back through the posts, but I still don't see what you are referring to or how my comment relates. Perhaps you could quote directly?

I entered this conversation a little late in the discussion, and hence I just commented on the original point of the discussion, and issues that immediately caught my attention.

 

[The Albatross]

I actually do own my hand gun for my own protection... and I live in a state that enables me to protect myself and my property. I grew up in Southern California and remember the Watts riots and fires. I was on the East coast during all the looting and pillaging during the black and brown outs in New York City (though I was in Boston). One of my tramas was my own husband (now ex) coming down the hall with a loaded shot gun with the safety off and though the gun fired, he shot a hole in the ceiling instead of me.

I exercise my right to own a legally registered weapon. And I intend to keep it that way.

 

[The Albatross]

Sorry Albatross, I didn't see your comment about Tibet. I've had a quick look back through the posts, but I still don't see what you are referring to or how my comment relates. Perhaps you could quote directly?

Naw, it it's not worth reading back for, it's not worth debating most likely. But I went on a pretty good screed so there's probably plenty of fodder future discussion should you so choose. (I got to get myself back to work anyways.)

 

[Meadowsweet]

In the UK, farmers and people who are members of sporting gun clubs are allowed to keep guns. But, in order to have a licence they are checked for criminal records. Their home is inspected and their guns have to be kept under strict security regulations. There are also regulations for transporting guns in public places.

So the argument for a legitimate use of guns is covered in that.

If you look up the statistics, they show that murder is significantly higher in the US than in other culturally and economically comparable coubntries. They also show that murder using a firearm is significantly higher than in comparable countries.

Those facts stand for themselves.

The idea that it isn't the gun, it's the person using it is neat and tidy. But the person using the gun is influenced by the culture.

I didn't know that Australia had reversed gun laws, but I think that it has been shown to have a positive effect on a society is something that should be shouted about.

The man who attacked me last came with a knife in his pocket. He strangled me, held the knife against my throat and lost his nerve. So I'm alive. I think if he had a gun he would have shot me, because the impersonal distance and the fast action of a gun wouldn't have given him that time to lose his nerve.

 

[cherryblossom]

I'm honestly not having a go at any individual, or any nation. But I do think it's very sad that anyone feels they need to carry a weapon of any kind in order to feel safe.

Perhaps I should just consider myself lucky that I don't feel that need, nor have the right to do so (legally).