Childhood Confused about Sexual abuse

[Mach123]

I am a survivor of CSA and it's always so disturbing to read the responses in these threads. It's kinda not? Maybe it wasn't?

Seriously?

I think it kinda is.

I could really go mental about this but leave it to say,

Maybe I already did go mental anyway,

I erased all the pornographic responses I was going to post to reinforce my position but I'll spare you.

It is. I hope you get help.

 

[Muttly]

How CN I tell if it damaged me or not

Well, this leads me to wonder why you are asking about it? If it didn't damage you, and was a one time event you probably wouldn't be bringing it up. If you weren't having some kind of struggle, you probably wouldn't be on a PTSD forum.

The problem with humans is we aren't absolutes and we are all different. Trying to find a clear-cut, black and white answer to your question is not going to work. What if we gave you a list of things that would show it damaged you? You could look at the list and find that most of the things on it applied to you and still not have the proof that what happened damaged you. You could find ways to explain away everything on the list. Anything on the list could have also been caused by other things. None of us, not even a therapist, can look inside your brain and say this symptom was caused by that event and only that event.

I spent years (decades maybe) looking for proof. I wanted something that I could point to that conclusively proved that the things my dad damaged me. That what I suspected was true. Evidenced mounted up, but it still wasn't the magical proof I was searching for. It just lead to more questions, different doubts, or resistance. The rotten thing is, we can't answer your question. You are going to have to figure it out. Asking the question is a good start, but you are also going to have to examine your feelings and memories and look at how you dealt with things then and how you deal with things now. In other words, it's a whole lot of work. It's also learning to trust your memories, feelings and experiences.

How can you tell if you are damaged?
You feel or believe a past event damaged you
You think about a past event and wonder if it damaged you
You remember a past event often
When you remember a past event it causes you anxiety, intense emotions
You have nightmares about a past event
You have shame around a past event
In your case, you have issues with masturbation
You think about if it happened to a child you know and believe it would harm that child

The list could go on. The things on this list, also may not fit. For example, people can remember positive events often. If you are grieving you can have intense emotions about a past event and that doesn't mean you are damaged. That's what makes it so hard. That's why at some point, you have to stop analyzing. What I did at that point, was decided to move forward "As if" it had damaged me. I could still think there was a good chance that I was misinterpreting what happened with my dad, but I was going to act as if it was real and see if it brought me healing. When it did begin to bring healing, that was further information, that damage had been done.

I hope you find answers and healing.

 

[Ronin]

Alternatively...

You don't need to have been damaged, to work on things, or just want to improve and change them.

If things were about damage, I woulda bolted off this forum, already. Because nah, fine. Just with bits that bother me here, and craters there. ;)

 

[EveHarrington]

How CN I tell if it damaged me or not

There’s no surefire way to tell, but if you have any sexual issues, it may be something to explore, with a trained therapist of course. If you don’t have any sexual issues, or intimacy issues, then you are likely ok (in my thinking). Of course I think it’s best to bring up this topic with a therapist so that he/she can help you work through it as you can go into more detail with him/her.

 

[Sideways]

Is it harmful if it only happens once?

This particular person may have behaved unacceptably in front of you just the once.

But in terms of could this/did this incident cause damage?

To me, that’s the kind of question I ask when I’m looking for reasons to minimise my own suffering, or if I’m wondering “Is this supposed to bother me?”.

This incident didn’t occur in a vaccuum. You, and your life, like all of us, is a complex narrative of experiences, both positive and negative. This is one of the experiences you’ve had. It’s contributed to where you are now.

So in that respect, it’s very relevant. Unfortunately, our lives aren’t like a lego build. We can’t retrospectively add or take away individual pieces and make sense of the whole by taking out any one piece and examining it in isolation.

If this incident distresses you? That’s totally legitimate. Did it contribute to where you are today? Yup. Os it the only reason you’re “you”? If you took that one incident away, would everything be rainbows and unicorns for you? No.

You don’t actually have to know, right now, how you feel about individual events that have occurred in your life, how much any one event has effected you. Did it put me on a completely new path? Does it bother me? Why does it bother me?

It’s okay if those questions take time to answer. Because you’re a complex individual. Understanding “you”? Takes time. And that’s ok.

 

[hithere]

The topic also interests me.

Edited to add: Was the father looking at the child and using the child? That's where my mind went-- or do you mean it accidentally happened and the father didn't want to make a big shameful act out of it so just acted normal. The context matters in my mind.

I became a interested in Freud's theories and there's one called the "primal scene" where a child accidentally walks in on their parents. The primal scene is worked out naturally and the child matures in a healthy manner. If they get the primal scene stuck in the subconscious it manifests in the neurosis. That one is interesting-just bringing primal scene to concsciousness will correct the neurosis. (I'm no expert so I may have this wrong for what it is worth!) I had a friend with a PhD in clinical psychology and she told me that some kids may hear their parents, or mom and boyfriend, or dad and boyfriend, etc, having sex through the wall and they interpret this as a comforting thing. "Oh my parents (significant caregivers) care about each other and love each other," and that brings a sense of security. Other kids hear this and they feel like their parents are out to get them. One more thing to upset the kid. She said it's all about "interpretation" on the child's part.

But what you describe I think is abuse--especially if the child was used as the visual stimulus . I am interested in this question, so mainly commented to follow. If the child was "used" to get off, then I think it is a sexualization of the child and can cause harm in confusing intimacy with future partners. I think it promotes sexual addiction and identities are interwoven with our sexuality at the core. Sex and love are powerful drugs, and I don't think it's healthy for children to have that awakened at an early age. but, maybe I'm wrong? Afterall, we are sexual beings and discover masturbating without any outside help. But In my opinion the feeling of being "used" sexually is what would result in the scenario you describe. I think this is so horrible, and I will try to put words to that feeling. What you want doesn't matter. Your feelings don't matter. You have no control. You have no power. You feel like a piece of furniture. It feels like someone went the bathroom on you. Your body is being devoured and it's your body that is causing the behavior in the other. It's a detestable feeling and all wrapped up in confusing "love and warmth." In Incest Survivors Anonymous a line that is read at the beginning of meetings is, "the gentler the violation often the more harm is done."<== or something like that.

Great question.

 

[ppippi]

Well, this leads me to wonder why you are asking about it? If it didn't damage you, and was a one time event you probably wouldn't be bringing it up. If you weren't having some kind of struggle, you probably wouldn't be on a PTSD forum.

The problem with humans is we aren't absolutes and we are all different. Trying to find a clear-cut, black and white answer to your question is not going to work. What if we gave you a list of things that would show it damaged you? You could look at the list and find that most of the things on it applied to you and still not have the proof that what happened damaged you. You could find ways to explain away everything on the list. Anything on the list could have also been caused by other things. None of us, not even a therapist, can look inside your brain and say this symptom was caused by that event and only that event.

I spent years (decades maybe) looking for proof. I wanted something that I could point to that conclusively proved that the things my dad damaged me. That what I suspected was true. Evidenced mounted up, but it still wasn't the magical proof I was searching for. It just lead to more questions, different doubts, or resistance. The rotten thing is, we can't answer your question. You are going to have to figure it out. Asking the question is a good start, but you are also going to have to examine your feelings and memories and look at how you dealt with things then and how you deal with things now. In other words, it's a whole lot of work. It's also learning to trust your memories, feelings and experiences.

How can you tell if you are damaged?
You feel or believe a past event damaged you
You think about a past event and wonder if it damaged you
You remember a past event often
When you remember a past event it causes you anxiety, intense emotions
You have nightmares about a past event
You have shame around a past event
In your case, you have issues with masturbation
You think about if it happened to a child you know and believe it would harm that child

The list could go on. The things on this list, also may not fit. For example, people can remember positive events often. If you are grieving you can have intense emotions about a past event and that doesn't mean you are damaged. That's what makes it so hard. That's why at some point, you have to stop analyzing. What I did at that point, was decided to move forward "As if" it had damaged me. I could still think there was a good chance that I was misinterpreting what happened with my dad, but I was going to act as if it was real and see if it brought me healing. When it did begin to bring healing, that was further information, that damage had been done.

I hope you find answers and healing.

I feel like it could possibly damage a child in a situation I described. It could cause them to be scared of men and men genitalia, it could cause the to keep relationships at an arms length, to feel like they need to be with a pedophile to connect with themselves to be with someone who exploits to feel cared for, it could cause them to be triggered by sexual abuse.

I recently watched the new MJ documentary and I was just triggered for days... One the one hand I was like how lucky were those boys to be abused by MJ and to be cared by him in that special way, but on an intellectual level I know what he did is sick.... So I guess it could cause someone to feel confused about love.

There’s no surefire way to tell, but if you have any sexual issues, it may be something to explore, with a trained therapist of course. If you don’t have any sexual issues, or intimacy issues, then you are likely ok (in my thinking). Of course I think it’s best to bring up this topic with a therapist so that he/she can help you work through it as you can go into more detail with him/her.

Is being scared of sex at 33 considered a sexual issue? Like wanting to have sex but being scared of the penis.

The topic also interests me.

Edited to add: Was the father looking at the child and using the child? That's where my mind went-- or do you mean it accidentally happened and the father didn't want to make a big shameful act out of it so just acted normal. The context matters in my mind.

I became a interested in Freud's theories and there's one called the "primal scene" where a child accidentally walks in on their parents. The primal scene is worked out naturally and the child matures in a healthy manner. If they get the primal scene stuck in the subconscious it manifests in the neurosis. That one is interesting-just bringing primal scene to concsciousness will correct the neurosis. (I'm no expert so I may have this wrong for what it is worth!) I had a friend with a PhD in clinical psychology and she told me that some kids may hear their parents, or mom and boyfriend, or dad and boyfriend, etc, having sex through the wall and they interpret this as a comforting thing. "Oh my parents (significant caregivers) care about each other and love each other," and that brings a sense of security. Other kids hear this and they feel like their parents are out to get them. One more thing to upset the kid. She said it's all about "interpretation" on the child's part.

But what you describe I think is abuse--especially if the child was used as the visual stimulus . I am interested in this question, so mainly commented to follow. If the child was "used" to get off, then I think it is a sexualization of the child and can cause harm in confusing intimacy with future partners. I think it promotes sexual addiction and identities are interwoven with our sexuality at the core. Sex and love are powerful drugs, and I don't think it's healthy for children to have that awakened at an early age. but, maybe I'm wrong? Afterall, we are sexual beings and discover masturbating without any outside help. But In my opinion the feeling of being "used" sexually is what would result in the scenario you describe. I think this is so horrible, and I will try to put words to that feeling. What you want doesn't matter. Your feelings don't matter. You have no control. You have no power. You feel like a piece of furniture. It feels like someone went the bathroom on you. Your body is being devoured and it's your body that is causing the behavior in the other. It's a detestable feeling and all wrapped up in confusing "love and warmth." In Incest Survivors Anonymous a line that is read at the beginning of meetings is, "the gentler the violation often the more harm is done."<== or something like that.

Great question.

Let's say said child was standing by the bathroom door looking into bathroom where dad was masturbating and telling the child not be scared and to come in, come closer....all in a very loving, gentle warm kind way. The child felt scared though, not sure why. But there was not touching, just an invitation and encouragement to join in.

I am a survivor of CSA and it's always so disturbing to read the responses in these threads. It's kinda not? Maybe it wasn't?

Seriously?

I think it kinda is.

I could really go mental about this but leave it to say,

Maybe I already did go mental anyway,

I erased all the pornographic responses I was going to post to reinforce my position but I'll spare you.

It is. I hope you get help.

I don't mind if you go mental on this topic. I'd like to hear what you really think. You can PM if you feel more comfortable that way.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't know. How CN I tell if it damaged me or not

What is your gut feeling about it? Would you leave your own 3 year old( if you had one) in his care? Why or why not? Do you feel that this is immoral behavior or appropriate? Is it a good example. Public means in front of others beside yourself. Why has the govt framed it illegal in public? . Would your mother have approved? Is this the positive and age appropriate behavior of a mature man who cares about his little girl? How do you feel about it all?

 

[EveHarrington]

One the one hand I was like how lucky were those boys to be abused by MJ

I think this thought is a big red flag that something is going on in your mind that isn’t quite right.

Is being scared of sex at 33 considered a sexual issue?

Yes, that is a sexual issue.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Was this the only incident? Then I would say it probably wasn't abuse. If he did it routinely? Then probably.

I disagree. A caring father would have felt uncomfortable to continue doing it in front of his little girl if he had boundaries and a sense of privacy himself.

 

[Gs172003]

I disagree. A caring father would have felt uncomfortable to continue doing it in front of his little girl if he had boundaries and a sense of privacy himself.

There is zero context. Did he know she was there? Did he do it on purpose or did she walk in on him?

 

[TruthSeeker]

There is zero context. Did he know she was there? Did he do it on purpose or did she walk in on him?

I am a parent. My 5 y/o walked in on my partner and I having sex. Our Immediate reaction- stop! Cover up. Get dressed. Talk with my daughter-give her some level understanding of what grown ups do when they care about each other. She named it the turtle game. Then she went to school and told her teacher mommy was playing the turtle game. Yes, that happens- yes, kids have questions and it is memorable. But stopping and taking care of child needs-key.

A memory from my daughter-mommy was playing turtle( that’s what we looked like.

@Zoogal Missing context: Daddy quickly zipped up/pulled up his pants.

There is zero context. Did he know she was there? Did he do it on purpose or did she walk in on him?

Agree.