News Does ptsd require trauma?

[Friday]

There is still the argument of the necessary impact for the creation of these circumstances. one might consider ‘eggshell skull’ preexidtance, as legal students are taught.

I’m not sure whether you’re discussing latent / delayed onset PTSD being triggered by a stresssor, loss of coping mechanism, or new trauma... or ...the theory that there has to be some kind of childhood trauma/neglect/abuse in order for people to develop PTSD as adults.... or... ?

 

[Mee]

I’m not sure whether you’re discussing latent / delayed onset PTSD being triggered by a stresssor, l...

Neither!

I am suggesting that the trauma required by individuals might be different to qualify as ‘extremely distressing’.

To provoke all the requisite diagnostic indicators of PTSD something we might think ‘insignificant’. Or might have found capable ourselves at a different time in life might not be to someone at the time at which they encounter it at the point it traumatises them.

 

[Mee]

Furthering the point I am supposing my ‘trauma ‘ may not have been a trigger had I not childhood stuff behind me ( which I had not found a held me back, though might have others). I don't know :) My childhood stuff is part of me:) It's my 'eggshell skull' And the person who violated me shouldn't have the get out of 'well, she was going to feel that wat because if her past, its not all my fault'.

It might have been as triggering had I been me without my history, I cannot find out! I only know I am me and I have ptsd and I did not before this.

 

[hodge]

Hmmm. This is an interesting discussion. I went through almost a dozen traumatic experiences (which meet the DSM criteria) ranging from rape to debilitating emotional abuse to being chased for my life from the time I was 11 till I was 30. I functioned really, really well until after 9/11 and then the priest abuse scandal all over the news starting in 2002. Then I can see in hindsight I began to have symptoms. I denied anything was wrong for a few years and pushed myself to the outer limits until 2006 when I finally was about ready to totally break down, went to a therapist who advertised herself as specializing in "the whole person" and got diagnosed, to my utter and total shock, with PTSD. The dx has been confirmed by three other therapist and a psychiatrist since then. I am still in the severe range whenever they review my dx. Last time was in November.

I'm no longer sure what point I hoped to make by sharing all this. I guess I think there might be different criteria for another kind of stress disorder suffered by people who don't go through life-threatening or personal integrity-threatening experiences and yet have symptoms that are debilitating? I feel for anyone who's been through awful things, but I also feel like I don't want to see the PTSD dx watered down. What we've been through is horrific and simply should not be compared to a divorce, breakup or other more ordinary unpleasant experience that doesn't threaten your life.

 

[Friday]

Neither!
I am suggesting that the trauma required by individuals might be different to qualify as ‘extremely distressing...

Ahhh. Okay, that tracks better. :tup: I wasn’t seeing the connect between that & misunderstanding jargon / medical terminology leading to criterion creep.

And, sure. Someone could absolutely respond to their goldfish dying the same way most people would respond to their child dying. (Severe distress). That would strongly indicate OTHER problems, though. Not less serious problems, just different problems. Would there be exceptions? Also, absolutely. (For example if a person was “fine” after their child was murdered, lost it over their goldfish?) But the exception would be just that. The traumatic event was the murdered child, not the fish.

 

[Mee]

Ahhh. Okay, that tracks better. :tup: I wasn’t seeing the connect between that & misunderstanding jarg...

Well I agree in that instance the trigger would hopefully be the child not the goldfish ; but..... Not all people are predictable!


And as regards creep I am uncomfortable with dismissing other people's distress as lesser because if the cause. Ptsd was a difficult diagnosis for me to come to terms with having 'lived through worse'. My issue with saying its not this incident but rather things that happened before that are triggered is in cases where there is a violater ( a rape, domestic violence, long term abuse) it reduces the Reponsibilty of the perpetrator. this is why I compare it to eggshell skull.

I do not believe I was a ptsd case waiting for a trigger because of what had gone before. i believe I would have been ok with out this incident OR an incident startlingly like it.

 

[Ronin]

I think there's distressing & distressing.

Because here we're still in the lair of already existing diagnostic criteria, abuse / sexual violence / DV. I don't think anyone here would dismiss those as 'not distressing' or insignificant much.

But there were people around claiming they got PTSD from watching the news, once, getting stubbed toes, having people cheat on them (nothing else involved in that) and such things, which, fine, distressing it may be, but is an entirely different thing.

Treating that distress as the same trauma distress because we're 'not comparing who had it worse' doesn't compute in my book, as they're not the same category. Not about not comparing. About different issues.

 

[Friday]

I am uncomfortable with dismissing other people's distress as lesser

Try not thinking of it as dismissing, or lesser.

If 2 people only have minutes to live... One from exsanguination because their arm has been ripped off and they’re bleeding out, and one from oxygen starvation as they’ve just been drowned? These are 2 radically different things, that need radically different treatment. Treating them the same would kill one person. Treating them as different saves 2 lives. Just because there are similarities (both need medical attention, both are at risk of death, both need IV fluids, both need supplemental O2, etc.) doesn’t make an amputation and drowning the same thing.

Respecting the differences between things? Saves lives.

In psych, also. Just think of all the poor people with PTSD who have been misdiagnosed and Mismedicated. Bipolar because of panic attacks, Delusional because of flashbacks, paranoid schizophrenic because of hypervigilance. Loading people up with medications that are dead wrong for them, or locking them away in institutions, because no one thought to ask if the person terrified of being kidnapped & raped had ever actually BEEN kidnapped & raped.

When someone responds to something very normal in a very abnormal way? Like losing it over a goldfish? It’s a huge sign that something is wrong. Finding out what is actually wrong? Is showing them the respect that’s due to them. As a person.

 

[8888]

My first thought.... no trauma, then it's not Post *Traumatic*...

That was my thought exactly.

 

[Mee]

Try not thinking of it as dismissing, or lesser.

If 2 people only have minutes to live... One from exs...

Thank you.

I agree with by far the majority of this. By far.

My point if difference comes I guess where we decide other peoples values and traumas. For me a gold fish would be sad but not traumatic. My guess is I take the death of some house pets more heavily than some others do ( but I am also very pragmatic about put to sleep decisions so less as 'about something else' than some others do. I also am clear why I am am this way philosophically and personally :)

It is possible that there is some one who feels about gold fish differently to the majority. Different to our societal norms. I am not convinced that's 'wrong'. For example; different countries have different attitudes to which animals are 'meat' And beyond that some people are challenged at all by meat it animal products. Serving a vegan a horse steak in America would be different to serving a meat eater a horse steak in America and different from serving a vegan or meat eater horse steam in France : the expected impact of that happening could be different not by the act but by the location. I would expect both vegans to be upset, and explain heir position, but the horse meat more prevalent in France might be less impactful than to an smerican vegan. Of course it's possible again Personal situations make it not so.

If someone reveres goldfish who am I to say it's in appropriate? I think on paper it looks insignificant. But I think that's how I felt about my ptsd not being from more 'obvious to other people' situations in my life.

It's taken some sympathy from my self to accept my 'trauma' my lack of resilience , was what it was.

 

[mumstheword]

To overreact about the goldfish indicates some other underlying mental health or personality disordered issue.
It's still painful. It could produce grief, depression, self-blame, even acute stress but it's indicative of a different but possibly not less painful mental health condition.
I think it's important to not smudge things. Call a spade a spade. Defining what's traumatic might need reassessing but let's face it, post traumatic stress disorder clearly states that trauma is what's causative.

 

[EveHarrington]

Well I agree in that instance the trigger would hopefully be the child not the goldfish ; but..... Not all...

So you’re a unicorn?

You want to argue that you’re somehow “special” and earlier criterion A trauma had no effect on you?

But for MANY of us with delayed onset PTSD, it was a non-criterion A event that pushed us over the edge.

I think you’re arguing something that data and research does not support.

Many people come here thinking their hangnail gave them ptsd but deny earlier criterion A trauma had any effect.

But no——it does not happen that way.

If your earlier criterion A trauma had no effect, the minor subsequent effect wouldn’t have had such a great impact.

I think you’re in denial——a great amount of denial. It’s a defense mechanism. I’m guessing you don’t want to get into the earlier trauma, and that’s your right. But you know what? These grand denial schemes you create in your head aren’t going to help you heal.

Unicorn on if it makes you feel better. For now.