Eliminating Exposure To Ptsd For Others' Sake?

[Tinyflame]

Oops missed the edit time, was just going to add the point of working on everything (& supporting each other) is to work on (challenge?) stuff I guess, also to not default to what is familiar but self-destructive, whether it be beliefs or just deleterious not helpful.

Like I noticed I said (before) about SI stuff, but that was 'last september', this is a 'new' september (maybe just that thought could help anyone with anniversary/ trigger 'stuff'). :hug:

 

[shimmerz]

But I should have known, my body always falls apart after the fact.

Is that a falling apart or is your body trying to tell you that it is attempting to help you regulate your breathing?

I find for myself and this topic that I was horrible at knowing how to manage others feelings about what was happening to me. My first T told me that I needed to stay away from others because they could get secondary PTSD. It really stuck with me what he said because of course if we are of the caretaking mentality we don't want to hurt anyone. The people who were forced to deal with me had different points with which they could watch. I would, like you, cough like crazy, glaze over, even faint in front of people. It was difficult for the hangers- onners. What they tell me now that my symptoms have reduced greatly, is that they found my reactions to be a gift to them. To re-attach to the primal urge to survive. Not many can watch that comfortably. I have come to a place fo acceptance that each of us is responsible for ourselves. If someone needs to not watch a certain stage or all of this in me, then that is okay. I don't take it personally.

However if you look at the posts on this site for loved ones of those with PTSD, you may well find that they hurt whether you leave them or not. Perhaps the best thing for everyone is to stay without shame and without guilt. It provides a healing opportunity for both parties - until it isn't. Then decisions can be made to separate.

 

[Tinyflame]

Is that a falling apart or is your body trying to tell you that it is attempting to help you regulate your breathing?

Thank you @shimmerz , I just meant the flu etc. But yes, I have the coughing etc if I have to talk about certain stuff. Manage mostly not to faint but some close calls! :rolleyes:

I was horrible at knowing how to manage others feelings about what was happening to me.

I don't think (in my case) others' feelings are in reaction to what's happening to me, as how it makes 'them' feel, if that makes sense?

My first T told me that I needed to stay away from others because they could get secondary PTSD.

OMG, never even considered that. :( ! (Simply because I am not verbally or physically abusive. Generally speaking try not to show what I feel, or expect someone else to be responsible for it.

What they tell me now that my symptoms have reduced greatly, is that they found my reactions to be a gift to them. To re-attach to the primal urge to survive.

[USER=10416]@shimmerz[/USER], I don't understand the above. What does that mean?

However if you look at the posts on this site for loved ones of those with PTSD, you may well find that they hurt whether you leave them or not. Perhaps the best thing for everyone is to stay without shame and without guilt. It provides a healing opportunity for both parties - until it isn't.

How does one know when it is/ isn't?

<mod edit: @Junebug, please visit the help desk and review this post: Link Removed Thank you -joeylittle>

 

[Tinyflame]

I find for myself and this topic that I was horrible at knowing how to manage others feelings about what was happening to me.

I guess that's what I meant shimmerz, (negative) feelings not from what was happening 'to' me, but (caused) 'by' me. Which, I guess at the extreme end of the scale could logically go to secondary ptsd. :(

I don't want to quote out of turn, but @Underdog said it in another thread- about the possibility of causing secondary trauma. I guess that's it really.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Underdog said it was ok to quote this from the USA VA website as regards secondary trauma, though I don't know the exact link. It said:

" Secondary trauma is in relation to how those around those suffering from PTSD react to our symptoms. We can sometimes seem to be many things we don't want to be to those we love and do things we would not normally have done to people before. Those that love and support us can sometimes find themselves being traumatized by that experience as well. If we should get angry and explode, disassociate, disappear, etc... what exit strategies would those around us have? How do you think and feel about those instances, especially over the long run? How would they internalize the actions and emotional responses? Although those suffering were traumatized, unfortunately we may also traumatize those around us as well."

I always was innately aware of that, regarding 'exploding' (anger) & such, but not the rest (dissociating, disappearing etc). :(

To me, that's beyond worrisome, more like crushing. :( But, it's also factual, so it can't be denied or ignored, either. Horrid.

 

[Underdog]

LOL, that really wasn't a quote but rather my rephrasing some of the information based upon my own perceptions, but hope it helps regardless. The actual link to the information is here.
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/family/effects-ptsd-family.asp

Secondary trauma wasn't even a blimp on my radar until I read about this. Once I read this, my own disintegrating relationships finally made sense. I knew they were disappearing but I didn't fully understand what was happening inside of them, and I took it to heart and lashed out even more.

Haven't read the full thread, so my apologies if I am out of place in this topic.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Underdog . I'm not so much the one to 'lash out' (since I was in my teens) but still, other stuff. Like you said, leaving without explanation, melt-down after-effects, dissociation, SI, etc.. I know exactly what I have to do, the best thing. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

Sometimes you have to give others' the words. Provide them a way out.

 

[Powder]

Sorry, Junebug, I have been away and working and taking care of sick family members recently. Haven't had time to check back. Hugs! I am still proud of you and so happy you're here.

I don't think secondary PTSD is a risk for vicarious traumatization if the sufferer is managing herself or himself. Just like any problem, it must be managed. Say someone has diabetes and is eating a lot of refined carbs and sugar and drinking all day. The family will be pulled down by the unhealthy habits and mood swings and medical crises. You get my vision?

I think balance is available to everyone and you show effort toward this all the time, in my perception of your posts. :)

Love, Muse

 

[Tinyflame]

Do you think so @Muse? It is true that for many years I have been aware of or worked on myself, (though I never thought any others had any of these similarities. :wideeyed: What is somewhat 'new' to others is not new for me).

But, I still realize it can be too much. I guess one can only ask. I know others have said people will not hesitate to say so, but I don't know about that. To be honest, it just becomes one giant tangled ball of non-understanding for me. Even saying 'stuff' (disclosure) feels so 'wrong'. Is it 'wrong' because it's foreign to do, or because I understand the oddity/ negative impact it can have for people unlike those familiar here. Or is it because you (I) turn one corner & figure out more- it took a lot of years to even figure out I had a right to think of things as having any impact. Or.. etc.. etc. :(

But something I think of, or I've come to the conclusion of, is that I've managed many years dealing with this 'stuff'. Granted not that I got in to 'looking back' at anything other than dealing with maladaptive coping or making amends. So thoughts or concepts of self-empathy (self-'anything', really) are very foreign to me.

However, I also recognize something else. Much as I (like all of us) want to understand & 'get over this' ('once & for all'- famous last words :rolleyes: ), I don't like the 'self'-centeredness of it, if that makes sense? I mean, a lot of grief comes in & with all the questions. I don't want all the questions any more. Before, when I understood less, it was simpler; I thought it was just 'me' (whether I considered myself a 'freak' or not), but years of experience taught me to not expect a progress or relief that wasn't coming. I wish I could go back to those days, though I realize it's probably 'healthier' to have had (without intention or expectation) unearthed what has come about. Sure has been awfully painful & frightening & one steep learning curve though. :(

I mean, like you said, finding a balance between actually maybe 'peeking back' at all of this but remaining aware of not causing harm or regret or burdensomeness in the 'now'.

I really hope that's true about the (not causing) secondary traumatization to that degree though. Thank you. That is really frightening (& feels like being 'cursed'.) Seems like disclosure alone would ensure it. :( However, as far as acting out or taking actions which could cause it, in retrospect it was a large reason (fear) always so I tried the better part of 20+ years not to. But, Idk, this 'heavy' stuff is not everyone's norm. Though I think it helps (me) not normally be shocked by what others tell me about themselves, or to be able to listen when they speak without filters. Also, I think sorrow & a lot of what ptsd involves, even a poor self-concept, makes it easier to be patient with people one-to-one.

I hope both you & your family members @Muse are doing better. By the sounds of it you need rest & a big break for yourself! Sending love, hugs, & much TLC!! :inlove: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

 

[Powder]

I connect with this quote from your last post: "I wish I could go back to those days, though I realize it's probably 'healthier' to have had (without intention or expectation) unearthed what has come about."

Another person told me that I am "just dealing with aspects of my experience and realizations as they come up for me the best I can."
This was how it was explained to my sister, who is distressed that stuff has come up, whereas she's heavily involved in the actively pushing down reactions to the brutal past. So, it is my experience that teaches me that just allowing things to come up and to come to terms or make meaning out of life is a way to balance.

I just had to watch this TED talk at work in teaching a class with a colleague. I think you might like it, too! (source: http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_give_you_10_extra_years_of_life)

I'm doing a lot of what she said: in addition to taking my two Rx meds and watching my caffeine intake, I'm eating better, not so many carbs, doing physical and fun activity as often as I can, giving lots of hugs and spending time petting and playing with my dog, going to bed early, etc. When I do all this stuff, I do feel much better.

My PTSD looms very powerful when I get tired or worn out. So just strengthening and not allowing life to wear me out is my battle. I have to keep an even keel and not let myself get depleted by my own goals and activities.

Love, Muse

 

[Tinyflame]

I am glad for you @Muse that sounds like a good plan you are doing. :tup:

I tried to read the transcript of the link because I couldn't manage the noise at the moment but it wouldn't sink in. I will try to watch it instead.

I think that's true about being worn out, & one feeds the other (symptoms -> worn out -> more symptoms, etc).

I realize I feel as I felt 30 years ago, alone with all of this & dragging through. I suppose it is because of a variety of events, & the time of year (the SI attempt (then) was eventually october, (I think?), but followed september's events, I guess it explains that part), being symptomatic & not being able to stop it, & shame & fear as regards that, loss, feelings of guilt, but based on facts. As a consequence (now) I can recall many details & how I felt from 30 years ago, I suppose it's state dependent. Unfortunately though there wasn't much that I know of I could do differently then, or now, so it doesn't seem of much use in terms of learning anything from it.

(((((((((Dear Muse)))))))). :hug: