Ok, I think this thread is escalating in a way I didn't expect, intend or really want.
@Friday I appreciate you taking the time to write such a full response, but you are honestly way off here.
I do not have an abusive therapist. Working with her is not one giant trauma re-enactment. I think you have taken 2 + 2 from some of the things I've said here and made it = 100.
What would resolving things look like?
At the moment, it means getting clear about what I really want to do. Do I want to end therapy now, talk about ending therapy and make a plan to do that over whatever timeframe, or do I want to refocus things with her so that I start having more satisfying sessions again?
What it
doesn't look like is me turning up on Wednesday feeling sore about some things and then ending therapy on the spot with her because orange juice made her late, the dog walker turned up and disrupted our session for a few minutes, and then she said something in the moment that got my goat last week!
I wonder if she’s this good at mirroring other client’s skeleton keys, or if she sticks mainly with clients who are hardwired through trauma to never leave her (to find a better therapist) as long as she treats them just badly enough the prospect seems impossible, withholding affection until ALL of the client’s attention is focused on her, and how to make things work.
Whilst that follows the general abuse paradigm?…
…It’s a specific kind of increasing levels of disregard, followed by insult, followed by flooding affection/attention; that’s primarily used by pick up artists, politicians, & pimps. People who need to keep assets (plural) “on the hook” & chasing after them.
I think you've taken what I've said to a whole other level, which isn't where I'm at.
I don't know really understand why 'withholding affection' has come up? Not really sure what affection even looks like in a therapeutic relationship, it's not a word I'd use in that context. If you simply mean warmth/care – she is warm and caring. There is no withholding. And I've said on this thread, it's not that these irritations make me feel like she doesn't care about me – more that perhaps she has got a bit complacent over time and doesn't pay so much attention to these professional courtesies with me as she thinks I won't mind (which I generally don't, so I guess I am a bit confusing that way....I don't usually mind....and right now, I mind a bit more!)
Calling me out at the end last time for talking too much, which has meant she hasn't been able to make interventions....wasn't said with any spite either. It still pissed me off, but she wasn't being cold/nasty about it.
As I keep saying, it really felt like I had taken her by surprise mentioning perhaps ending therapy soon, and I then got a defensive response from her. I can't know her intention because I don't live in her head, but I suspect she thought she was giving me genuinely useful feedback in her triggered defensive state.
Acting like a pimp?! Er, no.
But you called it when you “pulled away” by cancelling the appointment, as she’s pulled this on you so many times you knew exactly what she’d do next.
- First she “gives you a chance” that you didn’t reeeeeeally cancel the appointment… oh you DID?!? Must have been in spam! (Now watch, she won’t have appointments for weeks, but if you had had the appointment anyway? Know her well enough to know there’d be appointments for her good girl in spades)
- Then it’s increasing levels of disregard in session, once you can finally get appointments
- The BAM! That disregard? Is YOUR fault. She’s here for you, but yoooooou won’t let her be! Smack on the nose.
- (Now watch, she’s going to be lovely, kind, & caring.)
She's fine about me cancelling/rescheduling appointments. I've done it plenty of times – no problem. The thing in this case is that, for whatever reason, she didn't see my email, so she didn't realise I'd cancelled, so she turned up for our call to then find out I wasn't coming, and that was annoying for her. Not that she was angry with me (although the 'What a pain!' felt a bit short and I didn't really appreciate that!) But annoyed with the situation...that she was ready for a session that then wasn't happening and that she should have known about but somehow didn't. But then she seems unable to say 'oops, I missed that somehow' but instead always seems to try to make out she doesn't make mistakes ('it went into Junk' = not her fault)
The pattern I'm talking about that I've seen before is: I give her some feedback about something that isn't working for me or I tell her that I feel frustrated about lack of progress or I say I'm thinking of ending therapy...in the moment, she tends to have a defensive reaction, where she will often try to defend herself/her skills as a therapist by then raising some way I am contributing...then she'll go away, the triggered feelings obviously settle, she'll then be able to reflect properly on it, and she then comes back next time in a non-triggered state and able to have a really open, productive discussion about it. And, as I'm mentioned in an earlier post, that state isn't a phoney, fake 'I must try to be nice to reel her in and stop her from leaving' state. It's that she can have a proper conversation about it because she's not feeling under attack or whatever.
The issue seems to be her inability to self-manage when she gets taken by surprise by a bit of 'negative' feedback/me saying I'm thinking of ending and her knee jerk reaction to protect her own sense of being 'good enough' Not that she is punishing me because I pulled away by cancelling a session, so then I have to get back into her good books, which is what you seem to be suggesting?
These things (not being able to admit to making mistakes/feeling defensive if she thinks someone is saying she isn't good enough) are
her issues – things she should be working on about herself. They impact me and I'd prefer that it didn't happen (I can probably count the number of times it's happened in seven years on one hand) But it's not some evil, manipulative, abusive plan to hoodwink me.
no willingness -much less excitement- to work with someone else? (Even having to hide looking into EMDR, until it’s a done deal -that she’s never heard of??? BUT Is soooooooo willing to help you with how HARD it will be! WTFO) But just to focus on her-her-her and how to make it work with her?
Again, without all the context, you have taken this to a whole other level that works with your narrative of my T being a terrible person.
When I was investigating the trauma service/EMDR option (which is an NHS service) I was keen to continue having sessions with my T alongside it because we were in the middle of some good stuff, which I wanted to keep going with. Some T's won't work with you when you're seeing someone else as well and certainly the NHS service seemed to suggest that you shouldn't be working with anyone else once you start working with one of their therapists. So, I was worried that continuing with both at the same time wouldn't be possible. I explored the NHS option, not sure whether they'd take me anyway, or whether I even wanted to do it. When I felt like I probably did want to try it (but still had reservations) I talked to my T about it and asked her if I could still continue having sessions with her while doing that as I knew some T's have a policy that they need to take a break at that point. She said absolutely, she would not say I would have to take a break. And that, in fact, she didn't understand why some T's would insist on that because, since EMDR can be quite an intense process, it made sense that clients would be able to continue with their talk therapist who they have a relationship with, so that they could help them process what had come up in EMDR and help support them if it became difficult.
When I first mentioned potentially starting EMDR, she was clearly taken by surprise. And I think it did trigger her 'aren't I good enough?' insecurities. But we had a very open conversation about it – and yes, I had to explain a bit about what EMDR is – and I asked her if she would still be willing to work with me while I was doing it, because that's what I wanted to do.
There was no sense of 'her-her-her' and how I had to keep working with her and make it work with her.
I also wasn't looking in to the EMDR because working with her wasn't working – we were making progress on some difficult stuff at the time. But since the trauma service was a local (and free) option, I thought it was silly of me not to ever try to access it.
As an aside, 'trauma therapy' isn't such a thing here in the UK as in USA. I know it's been mentioned several times on the forum before – seeing a 'trauma therapist' isn't very common here. Mostly, you see a general therapist and they may or may not have had some interest and training in trauma. So, the opportunity to access a specialised trauma service is quite rare.
And as my T is not a 'trauma therapist' not all her clients are there to work on trauma. So, to go back to your earlier point, no, she doesn't only work with trauma clients who are hardwired to never leave her.
now seems to own your future, as well.
This sounds very dramatic and I don't really know what it means in this context. No one 'owns' my future. I am trying to work through when is the right time for me to end therapy. I feel conflicted about it. But not because she or anyone else 'owns my future'.
She also didn't stop me from trying EMDR with someone else. Covid did.
If a therapist just turned the camera off on me and went to talk to dog sitter I would probably drop them.
She didn't just turn the camera off without mentioning it. She told me what was happening (that's how I know it was the dog walker) and said she was sorry but she had to go and sort it out. It felt particularly abrupt as she turned the camera off, which she's never done before when she's had to get up or leave the room. So, the camera going off was unusual and didn't feel great because it was quite sudden and I wasn't expecting it. And when I'd been struggling to try to turn the conversation round and feeling like we weren't connecting/she wasn't very present, suddenly having a camera turned off kind of exacerbated that feeling. When she returned, she apologised again. And she apologised for it again at the end of the session. And we overran a few minutes so I didn't miss out on time.
The reason I mentioned the dog walker, was not really because I was that annoyed about the dog walker and her having to go and deal with it. That's the sort of stuff that happens when you work from home. But it happened off the back of a few other things, so my irritation overall was greater. And it happened at a time when I was trying to get traction with a different topic, so it was more frustrating in terms of the timing of when this disruption took place.
I mainly mentioned the dog walking interruption in the first place to highlight that her perception of that session was that I had bulldozed her by talking at her all session so that she couldn't get a word in and make any interventions, even though she was really trying....and my perception was that we had a session full of disruptions, where I felt I was really trying to get an 'in' to talking about more meaningful stuff but that she seemed distracted and not very present and it just didn't happen.
I just get a sense that this is not an option for you? Bringing these facts into the session and discussing them openly? Every single one of them and how you were let down. After 7 years it seems like that should be possible.
It is possible. I can absolutely go on Wednesday and reel off this list of things that have irritated me lately. I'm just aware that these are surface level/practical things that have caused me irritation and annoyance....but I'm not sure that the best use of the time on Wednesday when I'm trying to decide how to proceed or not with therapy, is for me to sit there talking about orange juice and the dog walker and turning off her camera and did my email really go into her Junk folder? I suspect it isn't. I suspect that, annoying though they have been, these are not really the things that are really important.
Though, on the other hand, perhaps I
do need to go through them all with her in order to surface what the important stuff underneath them really is? Something for me to think about....and any thoughts from anyone welcome on this – is reeling off a list of these irritations when I see her next useful/needed, or is that in itself a distraction from what we really need to get into this week?!
So, it's not that I don't feel I can tell her. I'm just trying to work out what is the most useful way to spend this week's time with her.
Were you the good girl, people pleaser in your family?
Nope. And I really don't see what being a 'good girl' or a pleaser has to do with any of this. You seem to be going down a route....but I don't feel I'm on that same route with you.
I just get the sense that this therapist just turned camera off and left without apologizing or saying oh I am sorry I have to step out for one moment etc. I didn’t read any of that so I am assuming it didn’t happen.
Already addressed this above.
But also just to say - I'm aware that I get into a lot of detail and that I write long posts. It honestly always amazes me that anyone bothers to take the time to read them all as I know some must be really put off by all the text! So, I am always grateful when people do read my posts and take the time to comment – knowing they will probably get another long post back to read in response!
I am always mindful that I don't want to write too much. If I were to write every single bit of context of what I said, what she said, what she did next and what she then said and how I then replied....we'd be here all day! :-) You're right, I didn't initially say that she had apologised. But if she hadn't have let me know what was happening and hadn't have apologised and if she hadn't made the time up afterwards a) I wouldn't have known that it was a dog walker situation and b) her not apologising and me then ending up short changed for time would have been on my list of things I was annoyed about ;-)
The camera going off bothered me because she has never switched it off before when she has had to leave the room and because I was already feeling lack of connection and the camera going off just exacerbated that further. That's why I mentioned the camera going off and not the other stuff about it that didn't bother me.
So, the key is often in nailing down what the underlying issues, rather than the more superficial issues that have brought those deeper problems and emotions to the surface.
Yes, absolutely this. Because, I know the issue isn't orange juice. Or a dog walker turning up. Or whether my email went into her Junk folder or not ;-)
And perhaps my writing a lot about those surface level irritations that all came bunched together, which made them much more annoying than the odd one would usually be, is a form of avoidance in itself?
Though, as I mentioned above, perhaps I do need to bring all these things up with her this week, so we can then explore what's really going on underneath.
There is something about feeling de-prioritised underpinning those things, I think?
But, more broadly, I am concerned that we are on very different pages at the moment. For us to have such different takes on those sessions...concerns me a bit. I am also realising that the lack of consistency with session frequency (which we have both contributed) has made things much more difficult. That's a practical thing that we probably could resolve – especially now the summer holiday season is over – if I choose to continue.
Further more, he lets me do it. Why? Well, because there's this thing called a "window of tolerance" and he's not going to make me stick to a subject that I clearly want to avoid. When the time comes that I can handle sticking to the subject, we will. I can't imagine him ACCUSING me of doing what I'm doing. If he saw it as a problem, he'd find a way to discuss the reason for the behavior, I think, rather than making an issue of the behavior itself.
