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Expecting Sex (rant)

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Meadowsweet

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A bit of a rant. I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to have this opinion. But I am sick to death of supporters who thing they are victims because they are not getting enough sex.

It seems like a very basic lack of understanding of human rights. Somebody else's body is and always will be, somebody else's body. Marriage and partnership doesn't change that.

I recognise, even if I don't understand, that men do genuinely seem to find it difficult mentally (perhaps self-esteem) when they are not having sex. I'd accept that maybe this is a big enough issue for some to have to choose a partner that has a similar sex drive.

But what I find really sickening, is when men are treating sex like it is their right. And when that right is not given, then she is defective, negelctful, abusive and that SHE needs to be fixed in order to fulfill HIS needs.

It's an attitude that is ingrained from a couple of thousand years of masculine rule. I am grateful for the growth in attitudes, that girls are less often sold by their fathers to a husband, to secure relations or money from the other family. That still goes on in the world. And I am grateful that my culture has moved on from that attitude.

But, this idea that in marriage or relationships a man has a right to a quota of sex, is just left over from the idea of women being the possession of men. I really hope people evolve from that idea.

Maybe if people got rid of that attitude, sexuality could become special again, something to be treasured. a partner would have to connect and really work at learning everything about the other, in order to turn them on to sexuality.
 
I haven't seen that attitude here on the board, but I have been staying out of the supporter forums as of late. Have you experienced this attitude in real life?

As in ANY relationship, if someone cannot meet your needs, then just get out. Stop playing the victim because a female doesn't drop to her knees whenever you walk in the room. There are LOTS of reasons for a decrease in sex in marriage. Don't think that if PTSD were taken out of the equation that your wife/girlfriend/partner is going to suddenly become a nymphomaniac. It just doesn't work like that.
 
I totally agree - and yes, unfortunately @Solara it isn't uncommon. It irritates me most when it's a new member on here specifically for that reason- ie it's their first post. It's also not uncommon for them to post the hoard of other symptoms the sufferer might have had over a long period of time, but the focus - or seemingly main motivation - for them posting for support is due to the lack of sex issue.

Those 'supporters' would be much better off posting on 'lack of sex in a relationship' support site than one for PTSD in which many suffers have experienced sexual abuse or rape.
 
Sexual Intercourse for me as a male victim is a coming together of like mided adults in the act of togetherness with each other. It is an intrinsic special time to be enjoyed by both partners, for both partners.

Sex is a beautiful experience and a loving bond between partners. Apologies if I am waffling.

Laurie
 
And yes - it isn't even that long ago where rape wasn't even recognised in marriage - I live in a modern developed country and rape wasn't even recognised within a marriage until the mid 1980s!!! The law actually stated a wife had to preform her sexual duties whenever the husband wanted it.

Google yr own country's legal history and you will be surprised as to how recent any such law changes were.

Sadly it is a socio -cultural construct that says men need sex and / or a lot of it and to 'satisfy' their 'urges'. Personally I find it's merely an EXCUSE for lack of self control. Men who cheat and it's somehow acceptable in the wider context if he 'wasn't getting enough at home'. How often does it still happen where a rape victim is still blamed for what she was wearing? Or walking alone at night? Poor 'men' can't just control themselves in those situations - it's not THEIR fault she was wearing a short skirt etc.

(Yet interestingly and tellingly - no one says those same things when the rape victim is an 80year old woman in her own home - no one comments as to if she was wearing short skirt. Nor children who have been raped.)
 
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I'm not disagreeing with you in anyway, men seem to have their own personal ideas that sex is a must have and they must have it (sometimes without the consent of the other party), however it's not only men who have put this idea into our minds. Women seem to assume that men are men (and through out history, due to women being the lesser gender) and women are to perform duties in regards to sex. Similar to the way women were expected to look after the house and children whilst the men went out and earnt money.

This relates now, since a lot of women (not all) are too insecure or don't have enough self-respect to say no to sex when in a relationship with a man who seems to want sex when he wants it, regardless of the woman's feelings. I do understand this frame of mind since I have a similar one, when it comes to me and my boyfriend (though he is extremely supportive and understanding around my needing to feel safe etc in the bedroom) he is a man and I understand that, as a man, he needs certain things from a relationship, just like I do. As a woman, I need to be able to talk and share my feelings as well as (in regards to PTSD) be allowed to be myself and require safety. As a man, he needs (not his only need however) to have a release for his feelings in regards to sex.

Men, in general, have the idea that they are the more important gender, this has gone on since the beginning of time and it wont change any time soon. This idea that they are the superior being makes a group of men (those who rape or take advantage of women) assume they can treat others however they like, because they are in control - in their minds. These women should not be blamed, like you said, it is never the females fault if she is raped because it is up to the man to control their urges.

Now, as you said about clothing and appearance being the cause of females being raped - I get where you come from, women should not be blamed for getting raped because they were wearing a short skirt. However, the male being the male, and apparently unable to control their urges, find women much more sexually attractive when they wear short skirts or low cut tops etc, therefore, making women who wear such things more likely to be raped. Also, throughout history, women who have dressed provocatively have more often than not been known for being a prostitute or having a lot of sex, and so in this modern day, when a women dresses a little less decent than normal, men (instinctively) relate women bearing a lot of skin to sex. And because women in history who were these prostitutes etc, often had little consent in the matter (obviously consenting to sex in some regard, but not what went on after that). And, in a sense, women should then take into consideration that this could be a (maybe rare but real) possibility of being raped or assaulted when walking alone at night or wearing short skirts/low cut tops etc.
I would never say it was the woman's fault for being raped since she did not force the man to forcefully have sex with her. However, if you go out, alone at night, wearing a short skirt, then you must consider all the possibilities - or have a little common sense. So I get where people come from when saying that it's the woman's fault, but it's not their fault - it was what they wore that first caught the man's attention, it was the man's fault for following up on those feelings/desires.

When you commented on the elderly and child rape victims not being seen in the same light - this is because the elderly and the young are both considered slightly helpless. At such a young age, children do not know what sex is, let alone rape and so people treat young children differently due to the fact they don't know what happened, they didn't dress provocatively or lead a man on, they simply stood and let it happen (so to speak) without knowing what was truly going on. Elderly people who are raped are very similar, young men especially tend to intimidate elderly people, due to the stereotypes of gangsters and these rapists and such. So, if an elderly women was approached in her home by a young man who then proceeded to rape her, she would 1) be quite helpless, elderly people physically aren't as strong as a young man and 2) would most likely be afraid out of their minds to do anything else to stop it out of fear of being hurt more, or even killed in a rape gone wrong (similar to a robbery gone wrong, which happens quite often to elderly people - so seeing these stories of elderly people stopping a thief and it all ending badly, would probably be in the very back of their mind producing a fear to do anything).

It's also not uncommon for them to post the hoard of other symptoms the sufferer might have had over a long period of time, but the focus - or seemingly main motivation - for them posting for support is due to the lack of sex issue.

Sex is a big thing most, normal relationships. I can't ask you to imagine it, as I can't, but try to think of a man being in 2 or 3 previous relationships and having sex regularly (both parties willingly) and then meeting a girl with PTSD and sexual issues. He would most likely be confused, a little lost and wanting to know what to do to solve this problem. Instead of assuming all men simply want sex and will go else where if they can't get it, try picture how they feel. It does wonders for learning about how I feel since I can then look at myself from a bird's eye view, so to speak. Anyway, I digress. Like I said, sex is quite a big thing for most men and most relationships - it's crucial in a lot of relationships as it is how both the man and woman bond emotionally and physically (there is a lot of science behind this, go google it). So when a man doesn't get sex, or even if a woman doesn't get sex, they can often feel neglected or alone and as though their partner doesn't love them. As is common with PTSD, showing feelings for someone (such as love or admiration) is quite difficult due to the trust issues, so unless a supporter FULLY understands this, they can often wonder why their sufferer doesn't want to have sex - they then might think it's their fault, that they're not attractive, that the sufferer doesn't love them, that they've done something wrong, and so on. I think in a relationship with someone who has a mental disorder/issue, both parties MUST talk about what each other needs from the relationship. I did this with my boyfriend, I told him I needed security and safety and for things surrounding sex or being intimate to go at my own pace and he told me as long as I showed him I loved him - which involved sex and being intimate, he was happy with how I was. Which was sweet, but it let me know that I must at least try to give him what he wants, when I am comfortable with it.

The men you speak about, who treat women as a possession, first of all, I highly doubt a woman with PTSD would fall in love with a man like that, and also, those men rarely come into a intimate setting with a women (except for if a woman is raped/assaulted), meaning that to everybody else - without PTSD - men like this, are a norm. It's gotten to that point in society where men believing their are superior and own women, is an accepted trait. Obviously, those with PTSD with a sexual related trauma, think differently as their mind has been rewired and so they look at this differently and see it as much much clearer thing in society - obviously there are some people who see this this way without having PTSD or any life events causing them to think differently. I thought differently before my trauma and I think the same now, just heightened.

Also, a supporter might be seeking therapy to help cope with their sufferers symptoms and want therapy to learn how to manage it and cope with it themselves. However, as I have recently learnt, talking about sex and feelings around sex is a very difficult and awkward thing to do. So, speaking about it online, is possibly their only (comfortable) option. Hence the fact their posts seem as though they are focusing on ONLY sex. I can't speak for everyone and I have no doubt there are some men who think sex is the be all and end all of a relationship, but from a lot of the posts I have seen on here and from my own experience with my boyfriend, sex isn't everything to a man who cares and genuinely supports you. (Just a bit of unrelated laughs; I made my boyfriend wait 1 month before I would kiss him and then it was 5 or 6 months before I had sex with him. He was perfectly fine with waiting since by the time I had sex with him, he pretty much knew everything and the fact he waited, showed me that 1) not all men are the same and 2) that he is amazing and one to keep a hold of).

I understand every point you have made and I agree with 99% of them. My advice, try to look at it from both sides. Obviously, rape is inexcusable and men should learn to accept that they can't have everything. But some men on here are genuinely caring and loving partners who are seeking help about the hard to talk about subjects - i.e their desire for sex with a partner suffering from PTSD. Quite the difficult topic if you ask me.

I am very sorry for how long this got, when I feel strongly about something, I tend to babble so I do apologise. I hope some of it is of help/interesting to read at least. ^^
 
Firstly, I respect all opinions above, no issue with them.

Secondly, I quite honestly think that the discussion of segregation, slavery, and such between men and women in relation to having sex within a relationship, is a whole lot of nonsense.

Thirdly, when a relationship has sex within it, and is then taken away, it actually does make the lacking sex an important issue in that relationship. If the sex wasn't present from the start, no worries, but a lack of sex drive is no different from a lack of emotional support. Why isn't that being tossed in with slavery and other comments in this thread?

There are many elements that comprise a relationship, and sex IS one of them. If your relationship is friendship, then sex is not a part of that. If the relationship is a partner, which comprises sex, then suddenly removing that element changes the entire dynamic of the relationship. To be perfectly honest, sex is a part of most relationships, and BOTH parties have a role in maintaining all elements of said relationship. Why do people honestly believe relationships today suddenly fall apart? Why do you think we have such high divorce rates?

The answer is simple. We simply do not tolerate such changes today for any length of time that affect the dynamics of what we've entered into. Couples used to stay married if one withdrew sex, or withdrew emotional support, and such elements that comprise a relationship. Today... we don't. A partner simply moves on when an element is withdrawn for an extended period of time and finds it in another willing to express all aspects again.

We ALL have needs, desires and wants, and a relationship IS give and take. Not one, or the other, but both. Take away sex and you change the dynamic. Take away emotional support, companionship, talking, doing things together, so forth... they're all just as critical as removing sex. A relationship is like a house of cards... remove one and it all falls down. These other elements are quite often also discussed by supporters, and in fact I would say withdrawal in general is far more discussed than sex.

Sex is one element that people remove with ease, because it requires effort to perform, being touched when they don't want to be touched, an so forth.

Sex IS a part of a relationship, unless your relationship never comprised it to begin with. It is just as worthy of being discussed by both sides of the problem, instead of downgraded as though just another traumatic event within your life. If you don't want sex, then you choose to not enter a relationship with it. If you had it, and its taken away, then you have a valid issue arisen within your relationship IMHO.
 
We ALL have needs, desires and wants, and a relationship IS give and take. Not one, or the other, but both. Take away sex and you change the dynamic. Take away emotional support, companionship, talking, doing things together, so forth... they're all just as critical as removing sex. A relationship is like a house of cards... remove one and it all falls down. These other elements are quite often also discussed by supporters, and in fact I would say withdrawal in general is far more discussed than sex.

I don't know what all the stuff about slavery is, but this I agree with, and as I wrote in the op, if a relationship isn't right for someone, then they have a responsibility to make the choice to stay or leave. There are a thousand reasons that relationships split, and they all come down to incompatability between the wants, ambitions, desires of partners.

I feel similarly about the isolation issue (that seems to be more female partners issue) - if you don't live with someone and they haven't texted for three days, I don't see that there is any problem to speak of. But if someone wants that kind of twenty texts a day relationship, then they're just with the wrong person. If sex twice a day is important to someone, then they may need find someone who can fulfill that desire for them. The sex thing just bothers me more because it is more related to what scares me.

It is the attitude of these people that they are victims in some way, being mistreated and having such a terrible life because their desire hasn't been met. Food is a right, safety is a right, not being physically, sexually or emotionally abused is a right. Everything else is a desire that somebody wants, if people want more than the other is able to give, then they may need to leave, but it isn't a 'right'. That's like a kid saying that they are emotionally neglected because they haven't got an x-box.
 
It is the attitude of these people that they are victims in some way, being mistreated and having such a terrible life because their desire hasn't been met.
You're talking about supporters of someone with PTSD... and last time I looked, many a supporter living with someone with PTSD, develop their own symptoms of PTSD. So I actually disagree with you, because many a supporter are actually being victimised due to a change in their partner from PTSD. Secondary PTSD... ring a bell? Sex is surely one aspect of that which you have focused from their words, and loss of that is also an emotional disconnection, because sex is not just sex, it is also an emotional connection shared between two lovers.

I agree that there are those out there that aren't victims, and I certainly wouldn't classify them that way myself... but there are a majority of supporters (spouses) living with someone who has PTSD, who are being victimised due to their partners illness, and sex is one part of that victimisation within that relationship.

I can understand that if your trauma is sexual abuse, then looking at this would be vastly different than me looking at it. It is like me looking at civilians, all those who haven't been to war. The petty day to day bullshit they worry about is nothing compared to war... yet they haven't experienced it, and it is me who must adjust and accept that not everyone has experienced that level of violence and chaos.
 
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@Katarina19

I'm struggling a LOT with your comments as to women wearing short skirts and men therefore being less likely to control their urges, and thus women wearing short skirts are more likely to be raped...

Please tell me I have that COMPLETELY wrong.

Because that is absolutely NOT the case AT ALL.

Rape is NOT about sex.

Rape is about POWER.

What a woman Is wearing is completely irrelevant.
 
It's an interesting subject.

I so agree with anthony, in that sex is a part of any healthy relationship. When that is removed from the equation, then of course one person is going to suffer because of it. Sex is healthy, and if the man has a healthy sex drive and the woman has, for whatever reason, gone off sex, it can be worked around in the short term, but not in the long term.

I don't believe a man should just 'grin and bear it' if he still isn't having sex years later...that just isn't fair on him. Men have needs, as do women. What I find funny is the way many women think that the man is just being selfish to want sex when it isn't being given...after years! Really? It's selfish of him to want to have sex with his wife after not having it for years? Um...no, it's not! It's perfectly natural to want to have sex. If he is forcing the issue then that's a problem, and if he is forcing himself on her then that definitely is a deal breaker.

I don't in any way believe that it means that the woman HAS to provide sex. Of course she doesn't if she is in a place where she genuinely isn't feeling it, but at the same time, it isn't fair to expect the guy to just not have sex again because she has lost all impulse for it. THAT'S selfish. Both parties have needs, and they BOTH deserve to have those needs met in some way or other.

I had a friend a few years ago who is married, and her and her husband had an 'open relationship' agreement, where they could both see other people if they wanted to. Not conventional I know, but it seemed to work for them. He allowed her to do this because she had a high sex drive an his was virtually non existent. She found that she really didn't want anyone else though, being given the freedom. I'm not sure how she actually managed with a strong libido?

I think that sex workers can provide a good service for people in this situation. There is no emotional connection, it's purely a physical release. Sex isn't just a sacred act to make babies, it's exercise and a relaxing release. It is a healthy thing to do so if the man no longer is getting touched then yeah, it can cause issues...I don't see how that is some kind of 'socio-cultural construct' like someone was stating before...it's a fact. Not having sex regularly can be unhealthy...it's proven. You can't expect one person to go without for long term just because the other party doesn't want to have sex for a very long time.
 
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