Graciously Accepting Advice And Other Points Of Views, Practicing Gratitude And Appreciation!

[littlelostchild]

Ah, safety while maintaining your beliefs - not an easy task. Thank you for this post. It is a reminder that we can have a safe space here for the exchange of ideas and support. I have been battered too much by the outside world that doesn't understand PTSD, this place is a haven of those who do understand.

Be well
LLC

 

[Lionheart]

I don't need to trash other people's opinions to have my own opinion.

I have to say that I do agree with you on this Ms Spock, and I think you make several important points, but this one really sums it all for me. I think we can totally disagree with another opinions or suggestions while still being kind and respectful.

Lionheart777

 

[Caterpillar]

This is a great thread. It took me a long time to learn to respect and appreciate opinions that are different from my own. What really forced me to learn wasn't real life but creative writing. In order to create a story which isn't flat and without conflict, you basically have to learn to understand differing points of view and see the reasoning behind actions you disagree with. I still struggle to apply these lessons to real life, though, where everything happens so much faster and the stakes are so much higher. Being reactionary is what comes naturally to me.

Even this thread demonstrates how difficult communication can be. It's a two-way street and we can't always control what people get out of our words (I didn't read Ms Spock's original post as suggesting people not disagree or keep their opinions to themselves, nor did I read Anthony's post as suggesting she'd said this; rather, I read his post as agreement with hers, but of course I may be wrong). Our words are always heard or read through the distorted lens of the other person's own expectations, prejudices, and experiences, which is how people can end up finding a meaning completely contrary to what we were trying to communicate. I've found that one of the best tools for effective communication is to listen from a place of detachment, putting aside as many of my own beliefs and experiences as possible. This is something else we're taught in creative writing, but it's still incredibly hard to do with subjects that evoke strong personal feelings.

As for when to not voice our opinions at all ... that's always a difficult judgement call. I'm pretty good at staying out of online debates because I think they're pointless, but when the subjects cross over into real life and personal relationships it becomes a lot harder to ignore. Some opinions can really effect the way I feel about a person and how much I respect them and I feel I owe them an explanation and good dose of my own opinion on the subject. I believe this is healthier than my natural instinct to walk away and end the relationship without explanation.

 

[anonymous]

I think it really comes down to respect. Respect yourself and your opinions, they are yours to own. But also respect others and the situation they may be in. So being gentle in the way we approach things. Voice what we feel is right but consider the implications. As @Ms Spock pointed out, it's being adults.

 

[anonymous]

Oops I accidently pressed anon. Lol that was me up there haha.

 

[fly away home]

Shit it keeps happening. Stupid phone.

 

[silkleaves]

This is a good thread... I'm a pretty diplomatic person, mostly out of my "don't start any waves" personality. It's a lot easier online than in person though, when I'm set off in person my reaction is on display, but online or say, in a private email, if something sets me off I'm here annoyed and speaking my mind at my computer and push off. Usually when I come back to it later, I've calmed down enough to see that I reacted wrong, and if I'm still upset, I'll either drop the convo, or raise hell..depending on who it is.

But it's happened to me a few times already on here, where I've said something and the response I got back made me want to blow up. The one thing that has kept me from doing that is advice my sister gave me when I joined the army, and that is, now they are going to yell in your face, try to get on your last nerve, piss you off and make you cry, but remember, you can't take it personally because they don't know you, it's just their job and they are doing the same thing to everyone else, so don't let them see you sweat.

So yeah, when someone who doesn't personally know me makes me bubble over, I remember, they are just happening to push my buttons, its not on purpose cause they don't know me well enough to know what my buttons are. That really helps me to disconnect from whatever is being said on an emotional level.

But if its a friend, I flip out pretty much instantly, because I feel like they should know better, and I don't get why they are ganging up on me. But yeah, in online discussions, my general method of operation when I feel someone is saying something that rubs me the wrong way (to put it lightly) I just stop responding. I don't appreciate it and the way it makes me feel, so I can't say that I do. The closest I've come, if I felt I really should respond / to kill the convo is saying "Thanks for taking the time to reply" and then leave it at that.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Hello and thank you for your thread Ms. Spock.

As you graciously offered many wise things, I would like to select a snippet please:

I am saying that when forum members appear rude, dismissive and brusque that I am less likely to bother to support and talk with them. I have discussions with people who disagree with me but that is being an adult in an adult manner. I don't need to trash other people's opinions to have my own opinion.

I have worked in various on-line communities and have found this to be true for me...I am reactive instead of proactive when I only support those whom meet within my criteria or approval. Their style of communication present a chance for me to strengthen my patience and kindness + maybe I can gleam something or contribute to the easing of their pain.

Generally I have found I am perfectly imperfect and tolerance (or the lack there of) is one of my thorns to pull out of my thick hide. My inner critic working on the outer world. Besides "One person's trashing is another person's treasure."

Trash me...I can take the rejection: I am a codependent in grateful recovery.:clown: Acceptance comes from within.

Thank you for listening to my share...

 

[The Albatross]

I call 'em like I see them and bear the brunt of my opinions when I give them... good, bad or ugly. I am always appreciative when someone offers that to me personally rather than sympathy or platitudes. Excellent post and topic Ms. Spock!

 

[anthony]

This probably wouldn't be helpful to someone who has just gotten back from Afghanistan, like my friend's son, to hear. He is blaming himself and he had to deal with the "pink dust" and I don't think hearing that discussion at this time would be helpful... ...But this guy is so close to killing himself it doesn't appear that he will make it. So there are times for being honest and true to yourself and then there are times to be decent to other human beings, no matter what your opinion is at the time.

I agree with her that combat veterans own their trauma by choice, however; the problem is not that with military trauma, it is that until recent years, PTSD was never even mentioned, nor mental health issues, to the soldiers who were deploying. The soldier owns their part in signing on the dotted line, and the military own theirs in that they didn't disclose to soldiers the mental health implications. There is a reason they didn't tell soldiers, and that is because the very traits of PTSD are extremely useful on the battlefield. If they told soldiers to sit around and talk about things in their head in downtime, soldiers wouldn't necessarily do some of the things they need to do in combat itself.

But here is a problem in the above situation...

It is about being compassionate, honourable and decent to other human beings who are suffering.

The guy is already close to killing himself, and instead of allowing him the choice by trying to help him with honest and factual information so that he can possibly see things differently, you think you're protecting him by keeping such a discussion from him, when in fact such a discussion often helps most soldiers make sense of self-guilt to the stage of acceptance of their actions, and then dealing with their choices and no guilt.

Yes, he may still kill himself. He may also take head of the discussion and change his argument within his head for killing himself.

Sorry, but a combat veteran needs to have honest information... I'm one, and it wasn't until I got that honest information that I changed my thinking, as did mates of mine who struggled the same. This is a very argument as to my original statement versus allowing people to uniquely wrap such information in terms they choose, such as compassion or empathy or whatever makes them feel better in not sharing that information with the person, "thinking" they're always doing what is right for another versus allowing that person to make such choice themselves.

We had combat vets here, and it didn't work... mixing combat veterans with civilian mentality. This is the very reason why they have their own site to support one another more correctly, because they need to hear the truth, not compassion or empathy or self-soothing methods to make the deliverer feel better about their actions, instead of them feeling better. The site works too, confirming the approach.

You want to help him? Get him on that other site and talking with other combat vets, openly, honestly... that is what will help him most.

 

[shimmerz]

Ahhhh.....combat vs civilian. I have often wondered the differences here. Many combat vets have experienced trauma as a child as well so this is a tough one. It sounds @anthony like you feel there are tremendous differences. Don't forget however, that what works for you (hard on honesty) might be too much for another. Combat vet or not. We are so very similar but so very different....

 

[anthony]

It isn't about being "hard" as you cite, it is about being open and honest. Open and honest is not hard, it is open and honest, it is the truth. Combat veterans, and I mean combat... have had enough bullshit and lies thrown their way, it is one of the largest issues with combat veterans actually. They're sick to death of being lied to, they just want the truth, they just want answers. Combat veterans understand black and white as a better solution. Soldiers relate to one another better because they understand these fundamentals from experience. Just like civilians, which this site is near 99% based, support one another much better.

When we initially mixed both here, there was hell to pay, because people supported veterans with warm and fluffy support, they repelled most of it, then attacked anyone who endured minor traumatic events compared to combat trauma. Not all, but a majority was an issue.

When you've watched populations get slaughtered, even done some of that slaughtering yourself, watched people rape, pillage and plunder without being able to do a thing, it brings a whole new level to the word helplessness.

Trauma cannot be compared, because trauma types are vastly different. PTSD is PTSD, trauma is not trauma. It is not about worse or less, it is about different levels of trauma and a persons life experience. Thus, civilian or veteran. Not military... but combat veteran. Military and combat veteran are very different things. Put two people with childhood abuse in the same room, and they will find that similarity between themselves to engage one another upon, compared to talking with another who has had an uneventful life.