Graciously Accepting Advice And Other Points Of Views, Practicing Gratitude And Appreciation!

[shimmerz]

Military and combat veteran are very different things.

Very interesting. Now that you have said that I can see how it would be so but it would never have occurred to me otherwise.

They're sick to death of being lied to, they just want the truth, they just want answers.

I want the truth as well but as @Ms. Spock puts out there in this post (my interpretation of it) she is not saying lie, but instead honesty with compassion. Do you believe that the compassion piece is something they feel is condescending or placating? As a generalization of course and through your experience.

 

[silkleaves]

It's very true what you say @anthony and to be honest, I do feel a bit "lost in-between" in a way... because for me, and others like me who are veterans, there are a lot of differences to civilians, but not the same experiences as those who were in combat.

While I never had to put my training into action in a combat situation, I was still trained for it. The military is not a safe and nurturing type environment...we were trained to suck it up and drive on, and if its especially bad, take a Motrin, then suck it up and drive on. I was in the Military Sexual Trauma therapy group, and a lot of what we dealt with, was in our chain of command or the soldiers who are supposed to have our backs.

When I was in basic, I fell smack on my knee during a run, was in excruciating pain, and was told to run it out. It wasn't til my knee ballooned up that they sent me to medic...where they gave me Motrin, told me I'd be fine and they don't have time for "this". If I had a problem with another soldier, I had to suck it up and focus on the task at hand. The ones who tried to speak up were whiners and being difficult. And forget trying to take up issue with someone in your chain of command, everyone will make your life hell until you shut up, you can end up not getting promotions you deserve, or end up getting deployed or off to the crappiest post they can send you to.

And with sexual assault, forget about it. If you value your career, don't bother saying anything to anyone. I mean granted, things may be different now, but when I was in 18 years ago and for many I was in group with, that was how it was for us. Even for those who filed an official complaint and went to the military police, records were "lost" and there's not even any proof anything happened. So we do have the issues that civilians face, but the additional issues of our military training to be soldiers first, and the fear that you don't want to bring attention to yourself, because once you are seen as a problem, everyone will set out to break and discredit you...there is no sympathy or support. You're there to do a job, everything else is annoying nonsense they don't have time for.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be so long!! But basically indeed, there are major differences between civilian, military and combat veteran trauma. There is no comparison really, but due to the nature of the trauma, environment, and what the training instills, I can definitely understand combat trauma having the most major effects of PTSD.

 

[anthony]

Do you believe that the compassion piece is something they feel is condescending or placating? As a generalization of course and through your experience.

I don't believe it is seen as condescending, no. Combat veterans tend to have a lot less emotional anything... they have to rebuild that aspect of themselves over decades to come.

I know the USA use veterans as a term for anyone who serves their time in the military, deployed or not... but a combat veteran, a person who has seen war, is very differently wired due to that experience. The experience pushes out most of their underlying belief system and replaces it with the now reinforced military training, because that helps them in combat, their prior belief system doesn't.

 

[anthony]

@silkleaves yes... training and military life is somewhat different, as you know. The USA tend to call anyone who served a "veteran" though, which outside of the USA is not the same. Most countries use veteran to describe someone who deployed into a combat zone, otherwise you're just considered a retired ex-serving solider, seaman, airman or such, but not veteran.

That is why I outlined combat veteran in a prior post, because I discovered from the combat forum that the USA tend to use veteran to describe ex-serving members, even though they didn't deploy into combat. Not really a veteran to me, but that is simply semantics of terminology used between countries. If I didn't serve in combat, I would only say I was in the Army, ex-soldier, and never use veteran in a Commonwealth country. Even here, I don't say combat veteran to describe my deployments, as here I am simply a veteran, meaning a person who deployed into war.

A slight difference which I now find myself catering when talking online, due to how the US view the term.

 

[silkleaves]

Very interesting @anthony! I had no idea that outside of the US there was that distinction. But see, even though I was never in combat, I would feel very lost, because at least here, as a veteran, I went through training alongside those who did end up going to war, there is a respect between us because we lived under a set of laws and a way of life that doesn't exist for civilians.

It's been 18 years, and I still catch myself referring to "civilians" and don't consider myself one because there's just a lot of stuff I have no understanding of with them, and a lot of stuff having been a soldier that a civilian would never be able to relate to. But that is really good to know how it is in other parts of the world.

You know, I'm wondering too if the distinction is because in many parts of the world, it's a given that the men join the military for 2 years (from my understanding, this may not be correct!). With such a larger part of the population having served, the distinction doesn't mean much. Here in the US, I believe it's something like only 3% of the population are veterans and 1% of the population are active duty military.

 

[Philippa]

I think I posted something here the other day, but it seems to be gone now? Does that happen? Do posts just disappear? I don't think I deleted it.

Anyway, I appreciate the different viewpoints here.

 

[cherryblossom]

@Philippa No posts have been deleted from this thread as far as I can tell. If you or a moderator had deleted it, I would be able to see it as a deleted post. Mods would only delete a post if it contravened one of the more serious rule violations, and you would have got a notification.

Perhaps you wrote something and didn't actually hit post. Replies will only be auto-saved in the reply box for 24 hours.

 

[Philippa]

I guess that's possible. :D

Gawd, is this what it's come to?

 

[intothelight]

One difficult thing about one dimensional communication that can easily be overlooked, is that it is one dimensional. We don't "see" the other persons body language, we don't "hear" their inflection, we can't ask for immediate clarification or provide feedback to ascertain that we are understanding what they are saying completely. That can make interaction at times frustrating, awkward and prone to misinterpretation.

Ms Spock is spot on about being polite and respectful, but without losing yourself. It is difficult and especially in the world of politically correct, language becomes a mine field. There is also the added factor of considering who you are addressing. @anthony made this point very clear with the different communication modes between combat vets and others. There is also a difference between the way men and women communicate that needs to be taken into account.

My last thought to interject, is there are times when you have to be blunt as there are people that need that verbal 2 X 4. Especially when you interact with someone who is actively suicidal or putting themselves or others in potentially grave harm. It is a balancing act as no one wants to drive them away, but to encourage them to seek help without the direct message being lost.

This is also a PTSD forum and with PTSD there are all sorts of cognitive distortions that also impede effective communication. I would encourage people if they are able to interact as much as possible as pushing your limits and really thinking about what you are saying and what is being said can go along way in helping with 3D interaction.

Oops......more than one last thought! :rolleyes:

 

[The Albatross]

@anthony ... that is why, though a veteran, I do not participate on the forum (no combat), nor do I work through my issues with the Veteran's Administration. I think you are really awesome for providing a forum for combat vets and agree with what you share about the differences.

I had some traumas while serving in the military, but I already had traumas. I served with Viet Nam combat vets and there is no comparison between my own experience of the service and theirs.