Guilting Someone Into Not Suiciding! What Are Your Thoughts?

[Philippa]

I guess then that it is probably useful, at this point, to post what I think is a good way to just connect and BE with a person who is experiencing suicidal thoughts.

When I was suicidal I think what would have helped me immensely would be for someone I loved to just sit with me...just BE with me, not feeling like they have to say anything to rescue me, or to try and convince me that there is 'too much to live for' or any of the other cliched responses out there.

To just sit or lie with me, maybe stroke my hair and kiss my head...feeling distress just typing this now...and for me to feel that they were really with me, in my terror, and not just away in their own universes telling me what they think I need to 'pull my socks up' so everyone can feel better and comfortable again.

For someone to be brave enough to sit with me, in my hour of need and allow me to feel the full scale of emotions and depths of sorrow without making me wrong for it. A tall ask? Maybe...it certainly doesn't seem to be something most people are up for. They have their own problems, they don't want to have to step outside of their little worlds and be confronted with someone elses pain. It seems to be the one thing people aren't willing to do...in general.

It takes a very brave person to do this...but I think this is the only thing that can really help...at least, that is what I would have wanted and what I think would have helped me, to feel emotionally supported and loved through my ordeal.

 

[Tinyflame]

Well Bless You Bloom for caring and all you've done. You may have been one of the only people who could or did show that to them.
But I am sorry for your pain and the toll it has taken. :(

 

[shell]

I don't think it's wrong to guilt someone into not committing suicide is wrong, if my doctor hadn't done it to me, using my son to make me feel guilty, I possibly wouldn't be reading this today.

I had totally managed to justify my actions to myself, that they were better off without me. He knew I was suicidal even though I pretended I wasn't that bad, and did the only thing he could because I refused to admit it. Yes it is selfish, all I wanted, was to stop the pain, and I totally didn't care about my families pain, but shrugged it off to myself.

My doctor offered his help, but I wasn't in place to accept it, so he did the next best thing, he sent me on a guilt trip. Today I'm glad to be alive, and I honestly think he saved my life, maybe one day I'll get up the guts to tell him.

 

[Loloma]

What a touchy topic! Everyone has their own opinion depending on circumstances in their lives. Now I may get slammed here, but I have to agree with Anthony, committing suicide is selfish.

I have tried it myself several times in my teens and as a mother with teenage children. Luckily I didn't succeed. What a terrible heritage to leave your children in particular, and the rest of your family. No matter how much pain you are in. I would not call a person who does commit suicide weak. I would prefer to say that to reach that point you are extremely fragile. In a lot of cases trying to rationalise with someone in a suicidal state in very difficult. Some times you can get through to them and other times they are too far gone to be reached.

Because of my family dynamics I have lost two brothers to suicide. The first one was in such emotional pain, that he thought this was the only option and he took it. He said goodbye to his children before hand. They never picked up the warning signs at the time. His children and grandchildren have still not recovered and his daughter had a breakdown and tried to commit suicide herself.

My other brother drank himself into oblivion, to forget his past. Even though he had diabetes and knew the consequences of his actions. He knew he was dying months before he actually did and admitted to the fact they he had caused it happen. He also left behind a wife, four children and grandchildren.

I have lost other siblings who were shot when they were young adults. As far as I am concerned suicide is not the answer. No matter how bad you feel, which in a lot of cases is a result of our past trauma's, suicide is not the way to go.


It takes hard work to recover when you hit rock bottom. So many of us take the abuse and trauma and feed off it and in some cases wallow in it. It is such an easy thing to do as it is so familiar to us. It is worth the strength to fight it and try and make a better life for ourselves, than to spent our time living the pain day after day. I'm sorry I really needed to say that, as I am so sick of loosing the people I love. The pain of it never goes away.

 

[Srain]

I don't think a person's age determines their worth whether 8 or 80, and pain is pain.

This is a very personal subject. I have always felt that when people attempted to tell me or anyone else how "selfish" an act suicide is or that I would go to Hell, how angry they were or scared, not for me but for themselves. It repulsed me. I never felt empathy but a need to shut down and walk away from that person.

I lost a friend who was pushed too hard, too fast and I was anything but angry. Why would I be? I loved her. I'm sorry I don't understand being angry at someone who is so much pain and anguish that all they want is for it to stop.

This is my experience and my feeling about it.

 

[Philippa]

This is a very personal subject. I have always felt that when people attempted to tell me or anyone else how "selfish" an act suicide is or that I would go to Hell, how angry they were or scared, not for me but for themselves. It repulsed me. I never felt empathy but a need to shut down and walk away from that person.

True empathy is very rarely shown most of the time, but it's almost never shown to people in that fragile state, and it's really what is needed I think. Yes, guilt may be effective in keeping the person alive, but surely there are better ways to approach a person who is already suffering immensely than causing them even more emotional damage. Just because guilt works, doesn't make it the best way of going about things, IMO.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone who has participated so far for keeping the thread civil. I know it is an extremely touchy and personal subject, but I think it's great that we can all air our views without reacting.

 

[Philippa]

What a touchy topic! Everyone has their own opinion depending on circumstances in their lives. Now I may get slammed here, but I have to agree with Anthony, committing suicide is selfish.

I would never slam someone for holding a different opinion to mine, so you are in no danger from this gal!

I do want to say though, that some of us have already agreed that it is selfish...we just don't see anything wrong or 'bad' with that. It's human to be selfish, and most people are at different times in their lives...including the family members of people who suicide.

Everyone does things with only their own interests at heart at some point, whether they admit to it or not. The suicidal person is in such a state that everything they see and think is skewed...so they can hardly be blamed for not being able to see through the thick fog that they find themselves in. It's tragic, but I really think they don't want to die, they just react out of the pain, and sometimes it does not work out.

People do things all the time which cause suffering to others, and get judged and labelled for it, so I suppose suicide is no different. I would say that saying that to a suicidal person when they are in that state is a pretty negligent thing to do though, regardless of how true it may be.

Making them feel worse when they are already in unbearable pain does not seem very constructive or helpful to me. It only serves to make the family member or friend feel better about themselves for condemning them...which is also selfish.

It's unfortunate that a suicidal persons actions can bring so much pain and devastation to other people, and that might be preventable if people learn how to listen and connect better with people in this state instead of burying their heads in the sand...and learn to have empathy with the person, instead of judging them.

I'm not saying that to blame family or friends of suicidals, but that in order for them to feel less helpless, and to not react by throwing labels at a person in pain, they might be better off learning new ways of dealing with the situation...if they indeed even know it is a possibility. So many people are so caught up in their own worlds that they don't even know the person is at that stage. Feeling guilty about it after the fact doesn't help anyone.

I do realize that I have the good fortune to have never known anyone close to me who has committed suicide, and thank goddess for that. My view may have been completely different if I did? I honestly think though that I would still hold the basic tenet that it is each persons choice whether they want to live or die, and if they choose to die, then I need to respect their choice. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do everything I could to prevent it.

 

[Lucycat]

I will start by being honest. I am currently off sick from work following a recent suicide attempt, as in a month ago.

I am feeling much better now and the feelings have passed.

I am completely with Anthony on this one. I believe it is a very selfish act. At the time I had no thought or consideration for anyone else. I could not see, comprehend or empathize with anyone. No one could have made me feel anything - let alone guilt.

My friend Laura was gutted when I honestly told her that I had wanted to be dead and it was not a simple 'cry for help'. Basically she said she would have preferred if I had lied to her to make her feel better about it. It has opened my eyes as to how difficult this subject is for people who have never been there. There is an utter lack of comprehension as to how anyone can feel so bad.

I appreciate this open and honest discussion.

 

[Loloma]

Making them feel worse when they are already in unbearable pain does not seem very constructive or helpful to me. It only serves to make the family member or friend feel better about themselves for condemning them...which is also selfish.

Philippa, I do agree with you that making someone feel worse when they are in that state is definitely not constructive, instead it adds to their suffering and might be a tipping point for them. Having been there myself, I know that it can just reinforce feeling of worthlessness. And anyone that does such a thing to make themselves feel better, needs help.

Selfishness in itself is not wrong, when we use to protect or help ourselves. There are many occasions when that is the only option we have. I strong believe that trying to prevent a suicide is always a good thing.

Unfortunately unless they were terminally ill or suffering from a debilitating disease I could never respect their wishes.

 

[Philippa]

Unfortunately unless they were terminally ill or suffering from a debilitating disease I could never respect their wishes.

I always felt the same way before I was in that place myself. To me, I think what does it matter to the dead person if I don't respect their choice? They've made it and that's that...they're gone.

Judging them for it does nothing to hurt them or change their decision...it just is a way for us to lower them in our minds because we chose to stay and are therefore "better than" they are for it. Why? Because society tells us we are brave and strong if we stay, that the person who fights and "soldiers on" is the "champion".

Social programming keeps most people from suicide, as well as guilt and fear of death. That might be a good thing in some peoples minds, but it is also something that holds us down under someone or something's thumb! To me, freedom of autonomy and personal will is more important.

My father insisted on having the nurses force feed my nanna when she was at her worst in the dementia ward...even when the nurses were trying to tell him that she had stopped eating because she had given up...she no longer wanted to live. Is it right to force someone to live against their will? I don't think it is.

It's interesting that in Hungary it is considered socially acceptable to kill yourself...even if you are not terminally ill or suffering from a disease? In Hungary they all accept that life is hard and problems can feel so insurmountable at times, that no one really minds if a person chooses to kill themselves there...if they feel they've had enough.

 

[Loloma]

Philippa,

I find that a very sad state of affair. The way of life is such countries is very different than in more affluent societies. Unless you were in that you situation, it would be difficult to understand that way of thinking.

 

[Philippa]

Philippa,

I find that a very sad state of affair. The way of life is such countries is very different than in more affluent societies. Unless you were in that you situation, it would be difficult to understand that way of thinking.

Are you referring to what I said about Hungary and the cultural acceptance of suicide over there?

I am detached about it...that's the way it is over there. I just find it interesting that the social construct that is in place in most other places across the world doesn't seem to exist over there.

I worked with a woman who is married to a Hungarian, and she thought it was ok too. She understood where they are coming from and didn't judge them as wrong for it. Life can be bleak...and more so in certain places.