Relationship If he's not well enough to talk...

[Hojay]

...why does he? I'm walking on eggshells here. My SO is trying to communicate "better," but I'm always one wrong word or question away from "confirming" to him that it's no use trying to talk and nobody ever listens and all sorts of other projections he has on me about being like his abusers. When I point this out to him he just screams at me that he didn't say I did anything wrong. What?!

Jesus Christ, I'm one of the best goddamn listeners I know. I'm everyone's freakin shoulder to lean on, but noooo, I don't listen and it's no worth talking to me. Ef this shit.

I can't win. I can't ever do anything right. I'm losing my goddamn effing mind here.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Then don't give him any fuel for the fire. He's looking for it, gunning for a fight, wanting to validate his distorted cognitions that you're the root of all evil.

When he talks, just listen with zero comment. Tell him you're just listening with no judgement and you hear what he is saying.

Sometimes I have to take this approach with mine when he gets volatile. I know I'm f*cked no matter what I say, so I don't say anything.

A lot of times he feels better getting stuff off his chest. Sometimes he gets self righteous because he takes my silence as guilty submission... like "yeah you know I'm right and you f*cked up". Other times he gets pissed because I don't react.

Really, I just am just not willing to get on the crazytrain and ride that bitch in circles all day. He's not going to make me participate. He can ride that seesaw all by himself. If it gets too hostile, I remove myself. Sometimes good things come out. Sometimes he talks himself to a logical point. Sometimes he just rants. He's not hurting me because I don't take anything he says in a rant personally. If he was deadly calm and collected I'd be hurt.

If it was a common occurrence I don't think I could take it. I'd have to leave. I'm not a therapist or full time whipping boy.

 

[Hojay]

Ugh @Sweetpea76 I hear you, thank you :( I got on the crazy train and rode that mofo all the way home tonight. I'm not proud of it. I told myself it would never happen again. And now he has me to blame again that he'll have a sleepless, terrified, and triggered night. Even though we talked it out tonight somewhat (how? miracle?) tomorrow he'll tell me that he'll never talk about anything and/or get to that point ever again. Meaning what? Or he'll throw out the good old, "you didn't let me calm down, that's why all this happened" argument. I can't absorb the blame anymore. It's just all too much...

 

[Sighs]

I favour the 'say nothing' approach when anything I say will be wrong. It worked with my combat vet dad when I was a kid. My combat vet partner on the other hand will yell "Speak!" at me. So silence is not really an option. Sigh!

Nothing helpful to add - just wanted to let you know you are not alone Hojay. :hug:

 

[Snowflakes]

@Hojay I was at that place you are now with my sufferer. As @Sweetpea76 wrote, we are screwed either way so the solution is to no longer engage. My therapist told me the same thing. She taught me to arrive at a “come to Jesus moment” within myself that I wasn’t a bad or disloyal or unsupporting spouse if I simply believed I wasn’t going to engage anymore. I made myself believe that the consequences of my not getting on the crazy-making train again was my sufferers side of the street, not mine. If she got so pissed that I quit talking about the incessant accusations that she was going to leave me....then so be it. I’d be sad but the decision was hers, not mine.

I understand what @Sighs writes about silence is not really an option. In my case, it became my personal boundary.....yell at me or make unreasonable demands and I will walk out the door. And I did several times. Broke my heart to do that but I was willing to do anything to regain peace in my heart.

The accusations, yelling, and crazy-making happens much less frequently now. She isolates more but she also keeps a journal for her therapist. The journal is actually for her to remember what she was thinking so she and her therapist can work through things.

@Hojay Sweatpea76 and Sighs give great advice. I believed and followed a lot of what they have written about this and managed to not take it personally and stop walking on eggshells. I’m very cognizant of her triggers so I stay away from some topics but, for the most part, I say what I’m thinking and no longer walk on eggshells.

Take care of you.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you all, it's already really helpful to know I'm not alone in this. Having been on this forum for a while, I do know my situation isn't unique and that's gotten me through the worst of it.

I have come to terms with the fact that he has a mental illness and that this isn't a normal relationship, probably never will be. I can deal with the isolation and such, but sometimes, when his crazy clown time descends on me, I really do start wondering, what's wrong with ME that I'm participating?

I'm in therapy too, so that's good. But I do wonder, listening to you guys, how is it that you've been able to establish a status quo that works on a somewhat consistent basis and how do you reconcile the discrepancy between what is and what you know a healthy, mutually respectful, and sustainable relationship can and should be? As supporters we all have to make sacrifices and sometimes settle for less than what we know is right. Aside from taking care of you (I'm fairly adept at that myself thank god,) what outlook, personal relationship philosophy or attitude keeps you hanging in there? What is keeping you from opting out and looking for a more stable relationship? The obvious reasons, of course, are love. But I think we all know that love is not enough sometimes...

I'm interested in your thoughts.

My combat vet partner on the other hand will yell "Speak!" at me. So silence is not really an option.

Oy, yeah. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Mine won't tell me to speak per se. It's more subtle than that. I do have some resistance to disengaging I'm realizing as I think on some level I'm afraid of what will happen to him, how he will get, if I stop speaking. He feels invalidated quickly and one of his big issues is that "nobody believes him" and "nobody listens." So I think that's part of why it's been difficult for me to disengage on a consistent basis. I always want to argue him out of his distortions and not fulfill his prophecy. I guess I'm afraid he won't come out of that one and harden into cognitive distortion. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that's working, I'm just trying to figure out why I'm doing what I'm doing...

If she got so pissed that I quit talking about the incessant accusations that she was going to leave me....then so be it. I’d be sad but the decision was hers, not mine.

Yes, this resonates. And I've been feeling much the same way. It's been a long and slow process, getting to a point of having to live with the idea that he'll take his cognitive distortions, run with it, and break up with me. On some level, I've just been waiting for it for about 2 months now...

Then again, I have a thing, it seems, about being misunderstood, mislabeled, and broken up with. It's happened to me in previous relationships that people just got up and plain abandoned me for reasons that were clearly based on false interpretation. The worst part was that there was never closure and I was never given a chance to speak or be heard. If they had only given me a chance to communicate with them straight, we would have either not broken up or I could have gained some closure. I've lost years trying to regain balance after those situations, that's how confusing they were. Of course, I've grown since then and I no longer grieve those losses, but I'm realizing that I'm perhaps operating from that pain body with my SO. Maybe that's another reason why it's been so difficult to disengage. I'm just desperately trying to be heard...

 

[Snowflakes]

@Hojay I understand your feelings. Why don’t I walk away for a more stable or “normal” relationship? For me, it’s because I’m very aware of the core person, the heart, and the soul within my sufferer. This core is being beaten up by her illness, she really suffers much more than I am. I cannot, in good conscious, hold her illness against. I can call her on her behavior towards me but I can’t walk because of her illness.

About not having closure. I read a very good book about “Ambiguous Loss” by Pauline Boss that helped me with that. In a very real sense PTSD took the wife I knew a long time ago. It is a loss. That book helped me come to terms with it.

Take care

 

[Hojay]

For me, it’s because I’m very aware of the core person, the heart, and the soul within my sufferer. This core is being beaten up by her illness, she really suffers much more than I am. I cannot, in good conscious, hold her illness against. I can call her on her behavior towards me but I can’t walk because of her illness.

This echoes my feelings exactly. But sadly the fact that we haven't really been able to have any sort of normal relationship for quite some time now is chipping away--not at my love for him and the person I know he is despite everything, but at my sense of even being IN a relationship with him. So really how long can it go on like that? I can't walk because of his illness, but his illness can sure push me out :(

I read a very good book about “Ambiguous Loss” by Pauline Boss

I've heard of the term "ambiguous loss" but didn't know there was a some literature on it! Thank you for the recommendation, I will definitely look into it!

 

[Snowflakes]

@Hojay Yes.....you are absolutely correct. He can push you out because of his illness. That is a big difference between you walking because you can’t take it anymore. Neither is right or wrong. I know we all have a breaking point regardless of the reason in a relationship. I hate to admit it but there were times when I just wanted to give up and find peace and solitude alone.

So it goes on like that till either you can’t live like that anymore or he pushes you so far away the relationship ceases to exist. Only you will know when you’ve reached your point.

In my case, she pushed so hard, I had emotionally reached the end of my rope. Then she actually walked out the door. She has since returned but knows she needs to be in therapy or it’s over. I see her struggling and I see her trying. Because of my own therapy, I’ve “put on my oxygen mask first” so that I can be a good supporter. I’ve picked myself up from the ground again and will keep trying. However, I will not martyre myself to her illness. If she leaves again then so be it. I’ll be sad but will know I did the best I could.

Take care of you.

 

[A13]

I was pretty glad I read this thread.
I find it difficult to communicate properly with my SO. For the last few months if I call him on the journey home from work or come home and ask him. What he’s been up to, what he got up to today or how his day was I get accused of “interrogating him”

I work with young people in the justice system and I just want to some home and shoot the breeze with my other half and have a decent conversation.. and he gets all uptight and accuses me of that nonsense.
I have always been very bubbly and chatty and I feel even myself beginning to change. I don’t come home and have that chat I need because I can’t face an argument.

In some ways I don’t feel like I get what I need emotionally or physically, or that I shouldn’t have to change myself to suit him but 9/10 it’s just easier. however what I’m feeling isn’t a shadow on how my other half is feeling. .

Sometimes it’s just hard!!!!

 

[Hojay]

I'm a little late to this, sorry. Just took a moment to offload myself from the crazy train.

I see her struggling and I see her trying.

This is the worst part, seeing that they are trying and struggling. If he were just 5% more of an ahole, it would make things a lot easier (for me to leave, that is.) But then again, sometimes I do wonder, how hard is he really trying? He just barely now reached out to a new T and hasn't, as far as I know, looked at any of the literature I know he knows about. On the other hand, I know he's suffering, has real reasons to mistrust therapy at this point, and is desperately trying to work himself up to getting back on track. So when do you say, well, not trying hard enough...when do you give up on someone you love? If he were a drinker, I guess I could say, next drink and I leave. But this is not so linear and not so clear cut. It's a real conundrum. I can get myself out of the way so he can recover, which means we're not really in a relationship (with all the hallmarks of one,) or I can get involved and be in relationship with him...a dysfunctional, volatile one, that is.

However, I will not martyre myself to her illness. If she leaves again then so be it. I’ll be sad but will know I did the best I could.

I will not martyr myself for his illness...I'm going to have that embroidered on a pillow.

What he’s been up to, what he got up to today or how his day was I get accused of “interrogating him”

I'm sorry to hear you're in the same boat. What a strange, sad little club we are here huh? What's worked for me (aside from my occasional slip ups) is just. plain. not. asking. How are you? Good. Ok good. After a while he will notice that he's pretty disconnected from me and will bridge the gap. Until then, I live my life. Sounds cynical, but if this relationship has taught me anything it's that relationships aren't always the most important thing in life. My SO doesn't want to share what's going on with him? Alright, I have my adorable nephew to focus on and will keep focusing on him (and other things) until, maybe, eventually, dude reemerges. If not, I have a whole life there to catch my fall. (In theory, in practice it's goshdarn freaking hard.)

 

[Hojay]

I have always been very bubbly and chatty and I feel even myself beginning to change.

I know the feeling. I'm not super chatty but I like to get into debates and spin out theories about weird things or dissect issues and get all philosophical about them. Makes me feel alive. We used to be able to do that. When he's well, he still can. But so many topics are off limits with him, I've slowly started cutting back on the stuff I like to talk about. The risk of triggering him with SOMETHING I've said is too high. Not that he would immediately get aggressive, he'll just get quiet and go off to have a panic attack. Well, that should be enough to make you shut your trap the next time.

I'm rambling, what I mean to say was in my post above. It's hard as hell to recognize, but sometimes our partners just can't give us what we need. At the moment or ever? That's the million dollar question. But in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with finding yourself outside of the relationship.