Relationship If he's not well enough to talk...

[A13]

I agree that’s easier said than done but I need to start looking after me. Your expression “crazy train” just made me realise. I have bought the same fare and an riding the same train... I need to get myself off!!!!

 

[Hojay]

Your expression “crazy train” just made me realise. I have bought the same fare and an riding the same train

That made me chuckle. Yeah, it's taken me forever to realize that I myself was purchasing my very own ticket onto the crazy train. I always thought it was heading for sanity and resolution land, but actually just kept dropping me off in crazy clown town. So no more trips for me...fingers crossed. Still working on it.

 

[A13]

Love your advice. Thank you!!! :) feeling inspired!
Have you figured best how to avoid it? Just by leaving the room, or ceasing conversation??

Recently we had a conversation when he was having a good day, I explained how it’s unmanageable for me to balance everything at home plus work full time etc. That it would be nice if he could help with some things etc. . (Not unreasonable to ask really)
Anyway... this conversation went rapidly south as he took it me slating him. He said how it’s basically .. get this.. “all about me” which he can’t possibly believe? I was furious at that statement I bend over backwards running our home, supporting him and all related.

Was this him wanting a reaction? Or do you think he believes this? Or Is this possibly him being manipulative?
Just out of curiosity Does your other half ever act that way??

If you don’t feel comfortable answering it’s no probs. I just am unsure if it’s his PTSD or him being a brat?

 

[Hojay]

Have you figured best how to avoid it? Just by leaving the room, or ceasing conversation??

Weeell, I'm still working on it. I think this thread was the nail in the coffin for me to try and engage in these situations. In theory, I've come a long way in disengaging. In practice, if still slipped up from time to time over the last year or so. Still human. But yes, the prevailing advice on this forum (and the one I can only regurgitate here) is to pull the plug ASAP when these conversations start taking a turn. There's a lot of talk about boundaries on here. Personal limits and electric fences. It took me a surprisingly long time to figure out just what they are. Then it took me another good amount of time to learn how to enforce them (what this thread is about.)

So pulling the plug can look something like this: "I hear what you are saying and I know you are upset, but I will not engage in this conversation if you [insert behavior, e.g. scream, call me names, make baseless accusations, hurt my feelings, look at me with your glass eye sideways.] Feel free to approach me when you have calmed down." And then EXIT. These boundaries aren't for changing his behavior, it's for protecting yourself (and also him to some extent...from going down a road he knows will not end well.)

The hardest part for ME has been being patient enough while he "calms down." It's a hell of a lot to ask of a person to disengage and be patient when they've just been ripped a new one for no reason at all. So yeah. It's also been hard to figure how to re-engage after he's calmed down. Can we expect an apology? When do you drop the electric fence and re-engage? I've been burnt re-engaging, hoping we could address whatever caused the blowup. So really there's a balance to be found between just dropping stuff, picking your battles, and holding him accountable when he really crossed the line. I'm still trying hard to figure that one out.

Anyway... this conversation went rapidly south as he took it me slating him. He said how it’s basically .. get this.. “all about me” Was this him wanting a reaction? Or do you think he believes this? Or Is this possibly him being manipulative?

It sounds a lot like trigger talk to me. This is the most hurtful kind of stuff...and the hardest to just drop, disengage, and exit from. (It also sounds like he's projecting because, really, when is it ever not about "them" right? Sorry...having an angry moment right now.) I can't say, of course, if he believes this. But lashing out with just any ammunition that seems handy at the moment is pretty common. I've asked myself that very same question: Is this PTSD or is he manipulating me? And that's an important question to ask. Sadly, it's really hard to tell even when you're IN a relationship with someone. I guess the aftermath make all the difference. How he addresses it when he's calm and how you are able to address it when he's calm.

I just am unsure if it’s his PTSD or him being a brat?

If you figure that one out, could you please send us all a picture with the nobel prize committee? I'm being sarcastic, but not really, because this is really is the hardest part to figure out. There are good guys with PTSD and brats with PTSD. PTSD can turn a good guy into hellboy, but a brat will always be a brat, with or without PTSD. I think it takes a lot of time and experiences with your SO to really be able to see through to who they really are. How long have you been together for and did he have PTSD from the getgo?

 

[A13]

I like your sense of humour!!!
We’re on our 4th year and I met him after he was diagnosed with PTSD. He spent some time in Hollybush - Ayr, a treatment centre and has been on and off seeing his T since. (CBT & EMDR). More off than on...
He was on meds but “doesn’t need them” because they make him very lithargic ... I’m sure you know the drill!!
Not unlike all the other stories. He was so open and forthcoming about it all in the beginning. I fell in love with him within a matter of months and now currently living together and .. as they say, the rest is history!! Lol

 

[grimalkin]

There are good guys with PTSD and brats with PTSD. PTSD can turn a good guy into hellboy, but a brat will always be a brat, with or without PTSD

Then, to complicate even further, sometimes the source of the PTSD can be an issue. For instance, my own sufferer has cPTSD from an abusive/neglected childhood. Sooooo....he never knew what a "healthy" adult relationship is because he never saw one. His parents and step parents were all abusive towards him (and each other, and siblings, and....you get the picture). Throw that into the mix, and he has no idea how to HAVE a relationship - he doesn't know how to have a wife, how to behave towards his children, his siblings....

Is it learn-able? Sure. If he's willing to learn. But when trusting someone else to teach means overcoming that PTSD thing and being ABLE to trust...

So even if he didn't have PTSD from his childhood, he still didn't have any good examples. Without PTSD, would that make him a brat? Without the mental illness, would he be expected to overcome his training (or lack of) to be a decent human being? Most likely.

Trigger talk is so hard to hear, both as a "how can he think that about me" and "how can he think that about himself?" kind of way. Unfortunately, without adequate treatment, it's not likely to get better - I realized that I was having to let EVERYTHING go because any push-back from me was too much for him. I, too, used to love debates and talking about interesting, engaging things; that went out the door pretty quickly (being screamed at for an hour car ride over politics - about things we agreed?....yeah, should have drawn a line in the sand with that one! Instead, I let my own boundary be crossed, and decided my new boundary was no more political talk, period). I eventually realized that having any kinda negative emotions around him, he considered "abusive," so even my "holy crap my work day was weird!" talks with him were no longer feasible.

My other bit of advice? If you find yourself unable to talk at all, nothing ever gets resolved, and even having emotions is proof of your "abuse?" Decide if you can really tolerate that for the foreseeable future.

 

[Cleo1521]

I was pretty glad I read this thread.
I find it difficult to communicate properly with my SO. For the las...

I’m on week 3 of not being spoken to because I asked what he was up to. I completely understand you feeling like you yourself are changing. I’m in the same boat. We used to talk about any and everything and now (when he’s soeaking to me) he usually spends the time together buried in silence in something else.

 

[Mackie]

In the beginning of 2017 I decided to get off that rollercoaster/crazy train. If he decided to go for a ride I'd see him when he got off. It has really helped me to stop the drama. It does feel at times like there isn't a relationship but when he does get off the train things have always picked back up. In conversations I let him do most of the talking and that seems to work best. I have family, friends, and co-workers to talk to if I want to be heard. :)
I have also heard the "You're interrogating" or "You're to happy" statements. It really depends on his mood and how he interprets what I'm saying and the tone. He's even said he has to turn down the volume because I'm to load at times. All things I've realize over time not to take personally. We are 4.5 years into the relationship and this year yet another phase is occurring. He's isolating more but is also working more. I'm just keeping myself busy with work, yoga at the Y and I recently joined a walking/hiking group. As far as wanting them to do something, I think it's best to handle it yourself if you can if they are not up to the task at that time.

 

[A13]

You guys and all your comments have been great!!! Thank you so much!!!
You know your not going crazy or those hurtful things that your told aren’t actually true when you guys post about similar situations!!

I think what I’ve taken from this is not to board the crazy train, I don’t actually have to change, but just change who I speak with these things about if he’s emotionally unavailable..

To me sometimes seems like a double sided sword because I want to share all my thoughts him and talk to him and hear about his day, but he’s not available right now to talk to!

I have no intention of leaving but the thoughts cross my mind; I am sharing my life with someone I can’t actually share with!?
Can I do this forever, will we drift apart further if I busy myself with friends and family & all my activities and hobbies, or does that strengthen our relationship!?
The only way to find out if by trying!!
Que sera, sera! - what will be, will be!!

 

[Hojay]

I like your sense of humour!!!

Ah, my coping mechanism :) I mean, there's really nothing funny about any of this. It's quite awful actually. But humor helps me keep sane. And I have to come on here to do it because if I joke about it to my friends and family they think I'm unempathetic or have completely lost my shit. So it's all serious talk with them...

He was so open and forthcoming about it all in the beginning.

That's what hurts. Mine was too. And I spent a good amount of time wondering if I'd just simply lost his confidence. Then I realized that even within non-PTSD related relationships people can grow more distant as their reliance on and involvement with their SO grows. It's paradoxical, but not abnormal. Sharing is probably cyclical in nature.

Without PTSD, would that make him a brat? Without the mental illness, would he be expected to overcome his training (or lack of) to be a decent human being?

Yeah, this. Then I think, even non-PTSD brats are brats for a reason, something made them that way. But when PTSD isn't involved we're not as eager to make excuses for it. So this goes back to the question, how much can we excuse with this diagnosis? We shouldn't excuse ANY of it, is the common advice on this forum. But I think at the end of the day we'd all have ended our relationships a long time ago if we didn't, on some level, excuse their behavior with PTSD. Again, it's a fine line. PTSD or run of the mill ahole? At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter, huh? But somehow it does.

My other bit of advice? If you find yourself unable to talk at all, nothing ever gets resolved, and even having emotions is proof of your "abuse?" Decide if you can really tolerate that for the foreseeable future.

I'm very much in this situation and have been for a while. There are certain topics that pertain to my emotions and fears that he plain cannot discuss. Or cannot discuss until he is better, because he, in his own words, so very much wants to discuss them himself. That's where I start wondering about manipulation sometimes. How much does he really want to discuss these things and how much is he actually just shutting me up under the guise of his disorder with no intention of addressing my feelings? I don't want to be unfair, and occasional glimpses of a good, mutual conversation keep my hopes up. But still, you gotta wonder after a while.

Can I do this forever, will we drift apart further if I busy myself with friends and family & all my activities and hobbies, or does that strengthen our relationship!?

I'm in the same boat. I've resisted solely focusing on myself because I was afraid that by doing that, I was the one responsible for severing our bond. As long as I tried and kept dancing around him like a lovelorn puppy, at least we still had something "going on." But I've given up. Not on our relationship per se, but my belief that I'm solely responsible for keeping us alive. No, I don't think that focusing on myself actually strengthens our relationship. It could very much sever our tie for good. But what it does is create the space and freedom for HIM to fill the gap and create some agency in this relationship. If he doesn't, well I know I really tried long enough.

 

[Mackie]

Taking care of yourself and making yourself happy is not severing the bond. It's helping you to cope and find ways to be happy when he's not available for you. You'll be there when he's ready to return but in the meantime you've got to live and feel good about yourself.

 

[Sighs]

Ha - mine told me in the early stages of our relationship that if we ever had an issue that we needed to talk about that we would sit together on the same lounge and hold hands and look into each others eyes while we discussed it. I CANNOT believe that I fell for that! :rolleyes:

Last night I needed to go to the toilet and he kept asking me to do little errands (even though I had told him I needed to go). Eventually I said "Can I just go to the loo?!" His response verbatim was "Stop squawking! Its unbecoming." :banghead: