Relationship It Takes More Than Love

[May1321]

((Hugs May1321))....

((((Nicolette)))) So grateful for you, and Anthony creating such a place where even if we are only touching a few, we are a few more that have a larger understanding than we did before.

You are a blessing!

 

[Jason111]

Love can be enough ....it's just that we need two people to participate....doesn't seem to work on a really unequal playing field.

 

[Molly Anne]

Jason, I like that. However, I know that the sufferer I care so much for loves me deeply, and is still unable to manage. Even my psych has told me "his feelings are genuine, he just can't back it up." He's told me that he misses me, that he will always be there for me. He's just literally unable to handle it right now, mentally or emotionally.

In fact, I've personally compared it to my really rocky childhood. My mother and I fought for two hours a day for years. I didn't really get it until I was a teenager - and I realized that I directed so much pain, frustration, and anger at my mom because I knew she'd always be there for me. It's almost as though sufferers (at least mine) direct their pain, confusion, and isolation at people who they know, or hope, will still be there for them when they are able to cope. They take it out on the people they trust the most because they don't know where else to turn. As I said, that's just a hypothesis of mine.

Have you seen the "cup analogy" here on the forum? It helped it make so much more sense to me... They don't want to push us out of their lives, it's just that PTSD fills their cup and other stressors are the first thing to go. Wow, I'm feeling so knowledgeable and inspired this morning. A week ago I was sure I'd be curled up in a ball forever... There really is hope in this place of support and learning.

 

[Molly Anne]

I hear myself say "I love him" very often, and I do....but how unhealthy this is since we have not had a relationship in 15 months.....yes, I love him but I love myself more :)

It is very hard letting go, but once we make the decision we can make peace with it and we will be happy again.

Frankie

Frankie, when I first read these words a week ago after joining this forum I was sure you were stronger than I'd ever be - but after a very short while here with the forum I am beginning to see that light as well.

I'm still hoping that the person I care for will return for friendship, but I realize that only he can decide that. It's heartbreaking to know that perhaps loving him so hard was not enough, and that he really did a 180 after returning from deployment... but I have to love myself too, and recognize that he's not the person he once was.

Hopefully, someday, he'll seek treatment, and he can be that strong man again, and who knows what the future holds then, but for now, I won't simply hold onto the fairy tale... I'll just love him from a distance and have some personal boundaries.

I heard a sermon about that once that really stuck with me - it's ok to love someone and still have boundaries in place, so that's what I'll do - just care from a distance. Until time tells the rest of the story... :)

 

[Jason111]

Molly,

I agree, and it's really all about what you can handle. I decided to terminate things with my sufferer because she wasn't respecting my limits, having rages, depressive cycles etc. But we have not even had any talk or resolution - she just shut down and I'm assuming is numbing before I've even had the chance to talk with her. Now it's been a week without talking, just a few scattered texts and I vacillate between feeling good and strong and then having anxiety and sadness. I'd really like to shift things from a lover to a friendship role, if she can allow that. I know she loves me, but is not getting the help she needs and is unable to cope with being responsible for someone's feelings and schedule, so I thought she could use a real, true friend that loves her. But again, it's on her terms, unless I can live with no expectations and love with no expectations. As I mentioned in another post, I don't understand how lovers can deal with the isolating, numbing factor of PTSD in an intimate relationship.

I'm glad that you are positive and are staying strong. This is where we all need to be if we are going to be of any benefit to the sufferer. In the end, it is their autonomy that we should help foster, because that is seemingly what was undermined in the first place.

Thanks for your positive perspective!

Jason

 

[Tinyflame]

But again, it's on her terms, unless I can live with no expectations and love with no expectations. As I mentioned in another post, I don't understand how lovers can deal with the isolating, numbing factor of PTSD in an intimate relationship.

In the end, it is their autonomy that we should help foster, because that is seemingly what was undermined in the first place.

I think when relationships 'work out' with people with ptsd, it's partially due to their taking responsibility for their symptom management and 'progress', as it were, and partially the other partner understanding that 'healing' is not the same as solely 'learning'- like having Diabetes, you can eat right and commit to exercise, but a sufferer cannot 'try harder' to get their pancreas to 'conform'.

I don't know if your expectations are towards how you should be treated or what you need or expect- obviously proper courtesy and thoughtfulness and boundaries, are the bare minimum, naturally- but sometimes it helps to examine your (our) own expectations. To work on 'ourselves' rather than the 'other person', though if we cannot reconcile the other person's behaviour, then we make a decision.
It's strange because they say if we make a 'gratitude list' (on one day) and a 'complaint list' (on another), the 2 lists are oftentimes much-alike but framed differently. Because the minute one starts creating 'expectatations' of how they need others to 'be' to bring them happiness, (we are all) bound to be disappointed.

But I've always thought the 'love' component is given without expectation. Oddly enough I think many people with ptsd do- usually more sensitive to begin with and not having an expectation of any return or anything else.
But also, like any relationship, it's a 'fit', or it's not. Not even so much all one person's 'fault' or the 'other's', so much as the relationship and interactions between them that exists as almost a 'third party', if you will. Some patterns of reacting help, some hinder, and it doesn't help we all have scars.
And ultimately, everyone is different- with or without ptsd, even if there were a 'magic cure' it would make many things easier but wouldn't entirely nullify fundamental differences or differences in priorities.

It's been my experience 'autonomy' and ptsd go hand-in hand- hence the isolation, it's when a sufferer is in or put in a position of interdependence or dependence (trust etc) on someone else that's hard for a sufferer, usually we're pretty 'practised' at being (very) independent.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you :(. Perhaps in time she may feel comfortable with you as a friend, if you had a strong friendship to begin with.

 

[Molly Anne]

Jason - I'm so glad to hear your reply and know that I'm not the only one that feels the way I do - going through almost the same thing, just different genders. Hearing your story really helps me cope - I have felt so alone lately, like I was foolish to hang on. At least I know that the scenario is typical and that the way I'm responding is "normal." Thanks for "talking with me" here about it. It's very reassuring! By the way, "vacillating" is the perfect term - this morning I felt SO POSITIVE and right now I could cry... but again, at least I'm realizing that is "normal" and OK and it will get better with time.

 

[Tinyflame]

Molly- it's totally normal- you'd have to wonder why you 'didn't', if you cared.

But you have to take care of yourself.

I certainly don't mean anything judgmentally.
(((((Hugs))))

Nor do I mean to 'stick my opinion down anyone's throat'- quite the opposite. I've found in fact (as per myself), when the day comes when I am totally happy with my own behaviour or reactions etc and 'beyond reproach' (which will be 'never'), is when I will be able to judge or complain about any other's actions, reactions, feelings or beliefs.
Let alone I have no idea of the sorrows that are truly in their heart etc., or what they deal with day-to-day.

 

[Molly Anne]

Junebug, Thanks very much and I know you don't! I can tell there's a lot of understanding and compassion in your post. I'm definitely working on taking care of me and even started seeing a therapist myself last week... at least if he won't, I can! I keep saying, at least that way if he does return and need my help at some point, I can be a strong woman that he can rely on. Not counting on there ever being a solid relationship again, but I would love to be his friend, and see how the story writes itself from there. Time will tell... :) Thanks and (((hugs)))

 

[Jason111]

Junebug,

Tha you for your clarity and your personal insights.

I guess what I was saying was in my particular situation my lover is not autonomous - she is not actively pursuing therapy, is going to a psychiatrist she doesn't like, lives with her parents who enable her and before that a stoner/drug using boyfriend who did not promote her independence...
My expectations were simple, not fixed. From the start, I told her I wanted to have a healthy, happy relationship. I believe everything/anything is workable if two people are willing to work on it, but I was bending too much, trying to hard (I felt) and she was unable to do the same, because, I feel, she is afraid of the hard work or rather is overwhelmed by having a lover with emotional needs and wants.

She has been coping negatively for so long that it has become habitual and even though I feel she wants me and a positive relationship, but is also threatened/challenged by it because it would mean facing those things she is not ready to face. She appears terrified of therapy, but I realized when we talked through our feelings, she came to great, healthy conclusions thusly giving me hope that therapy would work really well for her - if and when she is ready. She is numbing right and hasn't talked to me in over a week and texts have been minimal - she said she is in a bad place and that she is sorry - and I've left her a text that I'm there, with no response. I know this behavior is typical in some ways, as I've read on this forum....And I'm totally there for her, it's just that I have to move on too, because I can't go on waiting for someone to "come around" - Do you have any particular suggestions?

This is common approach of going away when the other is shutting down - when one is engaged in relationships with people who don't suffer from PTSD, but what is a lover of someone with PTSD supposed to do? I feel a lover needs to move forward into the world, fully embracing the beauty of the next moment, not be tied to a non-reciprocal relationship.... I guess I'm feeling stronger and I've become more autonomous emotionally from the relationship - and in the end, I feel that's the strength she needs from me as a friend / lover - if / when then relationship transitions.

In the interim, I guess I will keep sending texts every few days saying I'm there. Maybe she can and will realize that I truly love her, with no strings attached, if I can fully do it, I'll be my best for her because I'll have no 'lust of result'. If I never hear from her, I will mourn the loss but will feel satisfied in the sense that I did all I could do.

Please let me know if you have any insights that could help, I'm most positive you do!

Thank you,
Jason

 

[ronin47]

That be the truth

 

[May1321]

I guess I'm feeling stronger and I've become more autonomous emotionally from the relationship - and in the end, I feel that's the strength she needs from me as a friend / lover - if / when then relationship transitions.

Stating your needs, living a life by example, taking care of yourself. I have learned from my therapist, and my sufferer, that these are valuable pieces of me. It has helped me live an even stronger life for myself, too, because I am not specifically putting my energy into one person but into my overall being which shows not just to my sufferer but co-workers, friends, people I just meet, etc.

It sounds like your girlfriend has had some bummer luck with the men and I don't know many girls who haven't. It takes time to get out of the mindset that you deserve the good you have NOW because your ex assisted in the feeling that you don't. I think honestly for me, it took nearly 10 years of roller coaster - good - bad - good relationships before I truly believed I was worth MORE. It just may take time. I think we are all capable of realizing and fighting for the best at some point in our lives; she just may need to battle a bigger demon first before she is fully capable of accepting you :(

After my experience with my sufferer, and reflection, and reading co-dependent no more, I stand by baby steps but sometimes US taking baby steps aside and towards the outside to out of the relationship is more helpful to our suffering loved one than trying to help or be there all the time, or show that we are different. We are different, it is just up to them to allow that in. It's allowed my sufferer to come to me and realize what he needs and wants. Every time I get sucked into the turmoil, he retreats because I'm not being strong for myself. He needs to know I can take care of myself, but still have a whole heart for him. Which I do when I'm not angry at him for something that in the end, I'm responsible for because I know better :confused:

Baby steps... Take care of you. The analyzing of the decision is truly the hardest part :)