Love the art, hate the artist?

[parrotthepolly]

Some people will do anything to make money, no ethics and values, they don’t care about anyone just their own ego. To look like the best. Sad

Hm making money and keeping your ego are two different things.

It's possible to make money using a method that is decriminalised but mostly frowned upon and that isn't good for the ego. Personally I would do some things in this category cause I don't care what people think anymore. It doesn't help with self worth nevermind keeping morals.

 

[Rose White]

Now I’m thinking a lot about how hard it is to separate from the mesh of abusers in the capitalist system. Corporations

There’s a difference between art and corporations though, I see now. I’m listening to a free documentary on YouTube called The Divided Brain and it’s about this idea by scientist Ian MacGilchrist that the left brain is all about manipulating and the right brain is all about cooperating and those two don’t get along but they had to play nice for millennia and now he fears the left brain is sort of colonizing the right brain and that’s leading to all the problems in the world. It’s a curious idea, I just started the documentary, but he said something that brought me back to this thread.

He was talking about how it’s as if we’ve taken poetry and flattened it, he said it’s like we’ve explained the joke, removing the humor. I’m getting to my point. He said (at timestamp 6:06), “A work of art is an embodied being. It has an encounter with you as an embodied being. It’s not just a bunch of thought that has an encounter with your brain.”

So maybe that’s why we can’t let go of these songs. Because they are like children of the artists. Saul Williams says we have to be critical listeners. And I agree. But critical also means hearing the voices of those in the song beyond the abuser. And maybe the voice of the song itself?

 

[Sideways]

So maybe that’s why we can’t let go of these songs.

That’s definitely overthinking it for me personally. An MJ song comes on the radio and my brain makes a near-instant association with the allegations of pedophilia against him.

Just like when I see a punnet of blueberries in the supermarket, my brain makes a near-instant association with modern slavery.

The brain makes associations between stimuli as a way to process information it’s presented with. Which seems to be pretty much exactly what happens for me in those moments.

 

[Rose White]

@Sideways understandable. I’m similar with MJ songs.

I’m curious if there are any songs that are “more than songs” for you because your brain associates them with something positive? Where you hear it and think of a time or place or person first and the materialist aspects of the song second? (I understand that songs can do this negatively but I’m asking about positive associations in this instance.)

 

[Sideways]

Where you hear it and think of a time or place or person first and the materialist aspects of the song second?

Yeah, definitely. Loads of them. And there’s a lot of music I listen to that I associate with things that are just neutral associations, neither good nor bad.

 

[Rose White]

definitely. Loads of them.

That’s what I was referring to. I was considering why when the artist is known to have abused, some of us still hold on to certain of their songs, maybe with conflicted feelings. I was considering if the art can become a kind of entity of its own. And that feels different than boycotting Amazon, for example.

 

[user27357]

this hangs in my music room, not sure what inspiration is drawn from it. Not much really since I seldom look at it. I guess it is a reminder of what could have been if these people had allowed themselves a shot at life without so many chemicals? They all did something to earn a place in this frame, the group reputation is for drug possession or drunk and disorderly or similar but who can say? Not many examples of strong moral compasses on display here but who sets that standard? NOT ME. But their music will live on and has, with life spans already doubling (tripling?) their own. one eye blind to their transgressions, the other teared up over what they did for us.
Will Mick and Keith ever stop? Damn guys, maybe there really is a cross roads reality?

 

[Rose White]

drug possession or drunk and disorderly or similar but who can say? Not many examples of strong moral compasses

Do you think having a chaotic or addicted lifestyle is low morality?

 

[user27357]

personally i think selfishness that negatively affects others us immoral. So yeah, its easy to assume that there was some acts of immorality, but who am i to judge? Drunk and disorderly? wtf. dui? lock em up. miss a show and cost everyone s wad of money? what else dont you care sbout?

 

[Deleted member 57157]

I don't. Not anymore. I used to when I was younger. Now, I think that it doesn't change a singer's music. A song is a song, the person is the person. What I wouldn't do though is buy any more of their CDs.

Having said that, you do take a big blow when you learn that one of your favorite actors seems to be guilty (legally or not) of sexual assault. Still, it doesn't change the fact that their movies (esp. one) have helped me a lot in the past, even with the processing of my own sexual abuse. I will always be grateful for that and refuse to let that be taken from me by their actions.

 

[Rose White]

Good point @Charlee . A movie is made by a whole group of people, maybe hundreds of people for some movies. And the movie becomes like it’s own entity. It’s not defined by a single person, even if that person was a major part.

I think maybe the same is true for some songs and books—they stand apart from the person. Idk, I don’t have a hard rule about it.

 

[user27357]

if you have netflix, this subject was discussed by Fran Leibowitz and Martin Scorsese in episode seven of Pretend Its A City. a good watch all 7 i thought, witty intellectual banter if you like that sort of thing