Life

[_-yeah_nah-_]

What you want is not reflective of what your wife wants. Your wife is obviously not gay, she wants a man, not a man wanting to be a woman. No issues. You do you and let her do her. You can't expect the relationship to survive because of your need to transition. Your body is telling you what you want, her body is telling her what she wants. Neither align with each other, which is one founding part of any sexual relationship, ie. marriage. She never signed up to marry a woman, or a man wanting to be a woman, so you really can't expect anything but this reality from her.

Disbanding your relationship should not be your core focus, just get it out of the way and accept it, so you can focus on getting your self identity sorted and thus the rest of your life.

Didn't expect, I think I had hoped she would feel different, but here we are.

She never signed up to marry a woman, or a man wanting to be a woman, so you really can't expect anything but this reality from her.

You Say "man wanting to be a woman"
I need to point out that this is not me.
I know people may find this difficult to understand, Some may get a choice to transition or not, however My dysphoria is so strong, this is not a choice for me.
Trust me I don't want this... it really is a confronting position to be in when you are in conflict with yourself to this extent.
I want my family, I want my son 100% of the time. But my urge/need to be pretty/woman is so strong & is winning and ultimately costing me my marriage/family. =(

 

[Friday]

You Say "man wanting to be a woman"
I need to point out that this is not me.
I know people may find this difficult to understand, Some may get a choice to transition or not, however My dysphoria is so strong, this is not a choice for me.
Trust me I don't want this... it really is a confronting position to be in when you are in conflict with yourself to this extent.
I want my family, I want my son 100% of the time. But my urge/need to be pretty/woman is so strong & is winning and ultimately costing me my marriage/family. =(

If you’ve ever read Dan Savage… I actually know the only woman in the world he has the hots for. And her ex-wife. She’s (the FF savage drools over) M2F. And she & her wife spent 10 years through transition (hormones, top & bottom, several years of addiction issues so common to transition, etc.) fighting for their marriage. To end up best friends, who grew to HATE each other. To preserve any possibility of friendship? They divorced. As NEITHER could live in a sexless, passionless, companionate marriage. But that’s what they got, at the end. Because her wife? Isn’t a lesbian. Isn’t even bi*. And by the time everything was done… She was as attracted to her spouse, as she was to a pine tree. Able to recognise the tree was beautiful, might like to sit next to it or on it, and that’s where it stopped.

It’s one of the most common themes in trans-land.

* Even if your partner is bisexual, it’s highly unlikely you’ll be their “type” in BOTH sexes. What personality traits they’re attracted to will near always -but also NOT always- be the same, but what attracts them physically? Is reaching mythic/unicorn/but my friend’s friend! status.

Your marriage is more likely to survive the death of your child, than it is to survive 1 partner transitioning.

 

[OceanSpray]

need to be pretty

I know this may come off mean and I don’t intend for that. But I want to be honest that both times you’ve stated this have really gotten under my skin. I have my own issues surrounding this stuff so this could be projection.

Others who transition/desire to transition can absolutely correct me here. But saying you just feel the need to be pretty feels so disingenuous and reductive to the incredibly deep and meaningful feelings and hardships that *most* trans people go through. I don’t know, it just feels weird to read that.

As to the marriage splitting, I don’t have anything productive to add. I was your wife in this scenario and had the same issue. The person I married became someone very different and we divorced for many, many reasons. But lack of attraction to what they wanted to become was a part of that. They also couldn’t understand why I wanted to split up from that, it’s not that I didn’t love them. But when I married them, I did it with the idea that I would have a partner for life who I would have all aspects of a marriage with, and physical attraction is a primary component to that. But on top of that, I knew that they wouldn’t be happy staying in the marriage either once a transition took place. I knew they would want to explore their new body and identity with others and I didn’t want to stand in the way of that or sit back and be hurt repeatedly because my own dream came crashing down.

 

[_-yeah_nah-_]

Others who transition/desire to transition can absolutely correct me here. But saying you just feel the need to be pretty feels so disingenuous and reductive to the incredibly deep and meaningful feelings and hardships that *most* trans people go through. I don’t know, it just feels weird to read that.

I don't mean to offend anyone, nor am I being disingenuous, I'm simply trying to break down my feelings to it's most basic/raw level.. as these feelings are incredibly strong/overwhelming. These feelings are horrible they come with my severe anxiety + Panic attacks.

 

[Sideways]

I don't mean to offend anyone, nor am I being disingenuous, I'm simply trying to break down my feelings to it's most basic/raw level.

Depending on where you are in the world, consider reaching out to a Trans-specific forum as well. Not because you aren’t welcome here (you are), but because you’ll like find a better understanding of what you’re going through, and how to navigate it, from people experiencing the same thing.

This forum rocks at providing awesome insight into what its like to live with PTSD. There forums out there that are just as good at providing Trans-specific support. There’s no reason not to straddle both, in order to get peer-based insights across both aspects of your life, that will help you through this process.

I’m reckoning that there are plenty of people who understand exactly what you are describing, because they’ve been through it too.

 

[anthony]

You Say "man wanting to be a woman"
I need to point out that this is not me.
I know people may find this difficult to understand, Some may get a choice to transition or not, however My dysphoria is so strong, this is not a choice for me.

Word choice. Want. Need. Whatever fits... still the same outcome. I'm not being negative towards you or your journey. I'm simply stating the flipside to this, which is your wife not wanting to be with you any longer, she didn't sign up for a same sex relationship, regardless of your bodies needs or wants.

You want to remain married to her. She wants out because you need to be a woman. Swings and roundabouts. Not a negative thing, just the facts I believe as per your statements above. IMHO, you need to focus on you and your journey, and regardless how much you want/need your marriage, understand and come to terms that she married a man. That is what she signed up for because she is attracted to you as a man. Not as a woman. Attraction is very much a big part of any relationship. Sexual preference is a big part of a relationship.

Every relationship breakdown is tough. It has tough moments, hurtful periods. You are trying to save your marriage because of your wants, but also need to be a woman. Everything you have said, says you can't have both. Make your choice and run with it. If you need to be a woman, that is your choice, regardless of what your brain is telling you, it is still a choice. Your brain is telling you that you want to be pretty, be a woman - you are born as a male and you face a choice. I am merely observing the obvious facts, nothing more.

If I was married to a woman who decided to transition to a man, I would be divorcing her immediately. I'm not attracted to a man. I would not want to sleep in the same bed with my wife who now wants to be a man. My choice, based on my preference. It sounds like your wife is somewhat on a similar thought and feeling path. What my wife wants, is not my problem from a relationship view, if she wants to be a man. Her wants for the relationship would mean nothing to me, because the entire dynamic of a heterosexual attractiveness is gone from my side.

My advice and opinion has not changed. You need to focus on you and your journey to transition, remove the relationship so that it doesn't become toxic and you lose your child too. I'm not saying your wife doesn't understand, or won't in the future, I'm just saying she signed up for one thing, she has emotional connection to that, and you have flipped a switch. For a partner this is similar to coming home and saying you slept with someone else. That emotional bond is now fractured.

 

[Weemie]

You Say "man wanting to be a woman"

It was my nitpick as well. I just shrug, and move on, and look at the whole entity. But, you know - trans people do notice shit like this, because it's hard for us not to. Dysphoria is a bit like OCD. We notice everything, and everything that is even slightly out of place, which is probably why the trans movement is the way it is and so focused on every little thing, because that's the nature of obsession.

Dysphoria says "oh he said I'm a man wanting to be a woman well obviously he just thinks of me as a man." Well, ya know, he might. And he's allowed. That's the reality, sadly. People don't have to think of us how we want them to. As long as they aren't harming us (being disrespectful, physically hurting us), they can think of us as they wish. Unfortunately. But he also might genuinely support you, and just not understand how to word it all the best way. A lot of people more in Anthony's demographic simply don't know or don't care about all the verbiage - but Patton Oswald said it best.

We can't ignore that someone is on our side, just because we don't like how they talk. But other than that (and it is semantic, but I have less of a problem with it than looking at the contents of the entire message, which are basically fine, and right) @anthony and @Friday are right. You are just not compatible with her, and that's the reality of the situation - there's very little that will happen to make you compatible unless your wife is bisexual, but even if she is, transition is really hard on a marriage.

You are probably through, regrettably. And this will have impacts on your future as a parent and it will probably affect your relationship with your child for the rest of both of your lives. I suspect you assumed that you could transition and that nothing would change, but it's not the case. On top of the people in your life who may or may not react well, the world is incredibly transphobic. As you now know, because your wife told you she hopes you kill yourself, which is an extremely harmful reaction.

Everything is going to change. Not just with your marriage, with everything. Especially because you are MTF and subject to even more transphobia than me (FTM).

the need to be pretty feels so disingenuous and reductive to the incredibly deep and meaningful feelings and hardships that *most* trans people go through.

Having been thru this shit for years on end? There's a lot of different ways to be transgender. Some people have dysphoria like OP, some people literally don't and simply want to change their gender or are gender non-conforming. Some people think if you're the latter, you're not trans - I don't believe that, I think our world needs to evolve to accept that people should be allowed to change their gender if they want to, when they are empowered to, because it brings them joy.

Not just when they put on a performance of suffering to such an extent that people throw up their hands and go "oh, fine, you can have one (1) transition, as a treat." I would put her way as not the same as mine. But it is not abnormal and many trans people are the exact same. This is more of an intracommunity issue, though. You may notice stuff like this, but as a cis person, this is not your conversation to have.

The only people who get to define what being transgender is, is transgender people. Hers looking a little different, doesn't mean she is not trans, or that she is reducing other trans people - many of whom are the exact same as her, with the same experiences. I am trans, so I can say with confidence that she is not reducing me or how I move through the world. This idea comes from the fact that there are right and wrong ways to be a woman or man, and there really aren't.

Gender is a qualiatic phenomenon, which means it is for the individual themselves. We have a society, and we have gender stereotypes based on the similar experiences of others, but ultimately it is individual. It doesn't matter how you perceive it. What makes someone a woman - the clothes they wear? The makeup they wear? Their hobbies? Nope, it is their internal experience. And a lot of women do want to be pretty and struggle with body dysmorphia.

Maybe that is how she views womanhood, and other women might not agree. But no matter what you think or feel about her presentation of her gender, she is the one that is going to have to endure our society's harmful status quo because of it. Dysphoria, dysmorphia, transphobia, painful comments, divorce, potentially losing custody, etc - for the rest of her life. That doesn't change because others don't agree.

I think your past is impacting your opinions on this, as it seems quite evident to me that she is going through an exceptionally difficult circumstance that is no more or less genuine than you and your ex partner's. For the record, I am also transgender (the uno reverse card style, FTM) and we have plenty of trans folks on this website, so I'm glad you posted about it @_-yeah_nah-_ It's nice to speak to some older trans folks like damn. I often feel quite lonely since I just don't connect with baby queers anymore, snerk.

 

[Movingforward10]

Everything @Weemie said.


And to add:
I can understand why you're struggling with the end of your relationship and struggling to see why your wife would want to end it. You need to change the outside of you to match the inside of you, and you want/need stability and familiarity to help stabilise an otherwise unknown journey.
However, when you look at it from her perspective, it's very easy to see why the relationship won't work for her. I wonder if spending some time seeing it from her perspective (not the immediate transphobia things she has said, but the basic message that she isn't attracted to women), might help you accept this relationship can't survive this fundamental change.

Also remembering, you have known who you are for a very long time and have had the time to become aware and accept it. She's learning about it now. So she needs time to catch up.

Transitioning means changing so many, and every, aspect of your life. That must be liberating and scary at the same time.

 

[anthony]

You may notice stuff like this, but as a cis person, this is not your conversation to have.

The only people who get to define what being transgender is, is transgender people.

Careful, slippery slope you're stating there. Experience is valid, but people are allowed their opinion.

 

[_-yeah_nah-_]

Realising that men have no rights when it comes to kids & divorce,
Wife threatened to set me up with the police to kick me out to start with. Now, all the advice I have is not to move back home and not be around her without a witness.
To avoid AVOs. Fukd up.

 

[Sideways]

Wife threatened to set me up with the police to kick me out to start with.

This sounds like fear and anger on her part, which are both pretty natural emotions to be struggling with during the break down of a marriage with a young child.

That doesn’t justify her behaviour. But…there tends to be two ways these things play out: the first, way too common response, is that both parties lean in to those emotions, fuel them in each other, and the relationship infinitely deteriorates. The biggest loser is the child, who ends up with parents that have a completely dysfunctional relationship, which they then have to figure out how to navigate.

The other way it can go? Which is much much harder short term, is someone injects some empathy, compassion and patience into the situation. A marriage dissolution is in the top 3 most stressful events that humans can go through. It makes sense that she (and you) both have emotions that are going pretty crazy right now.

But if you can step back, give each other space and time and compassion to go through that pain, then there is something that can be recovered on the other side. A relationship between 2 adults who are able to offer each other some compassion and understanding, and work together, despite their relationship with each other, for the sake of their child’s well-being.

It’s not fair. But you have a choice, right now, to lean into the fear and anger she’s projecting, and make it worse - but will not be the biggest loser in that situation. Your child will be.

Or…acknowledge it for what it is. Offer compassion and patience, irrespective of whether she deserves it, so that at some point, your child has parents who are able to coexist with each other without being at war.

Take what’s helpful from that, leave the rest.

 

[anthony]

Now, all the advice I have is not to move back home and not be around her without a witness.

Some people are just volatile after break-up. They want to hurt the other person... even though they often still love them / feel something kind towards them, pain says hurt them to make them feel hurt the way they are feeling.

I was the primary carer of my kids in my last marriage, even with PTSD, and once we separated, my ex used PTSD to place me under supervised visits with my children so a professional can sign-off that I am a good person. Classic example of one party wanting to hurt the other party because they're hurting.

My advice is to do what you have to do IF you want to be part of your kids lives still. She may take it further once you jump that hurdle, to push you from her life, which the consequence is your kids lives. That happened to me... she knew I would break eventually (PTSD) and would have to remove myself all because it was her inflicting the ongoing suffering. Then she claimed the high ground, claiming she knew I would abandon them. Its just f*cked up... but romantic partners can be really hurtful.