Childhood Maybe it's time to believe myself?

[Muttly]

There's things I know and remember about the father but than there's also a lot of uncertainty and blank space. So, I still much of my time, tear myself up with doubts and questions "What really happened? Am I exaggerating? faking? deceiving myself?" I have longed for proof, for some outsider to confirm what happened. Or for a family member to confirm what happened instead of denying and painting me the villain.

Maybe it is time

Here's what I know:

• For as long I can remember, from early childhood until I cut contact as an adult, my dad would touch my ass in a sexual way and reach between my legs.
• If I was bent over, like to tie my shoes, I was a fair target and "asking for it" and he "couldn't resist".
• If he had a stick like thing in his hand, feather duster, wrapping paper tubes, ski poles, etc, that would become on object to run up and between my legs in a sexual way.
• He and no one else in the family considered that a problem because I had clothes on and he was "just playing"
• All of the unwanted touching was so bad that I would often rush past him, so I maybe wouldn't be touched. I would do all I could to avoid bending over
• I was the youngest and was sent under the christmas tree to water it and would try to do it when he wasn't around so he couldn't use his hands, foot or an object to touch me
• Running away from him made him laugh. Me being nervous made him laugh. If I hit him, he'd be proud and say how I would be able to protect myself from the men who would try to rape me. Unless I hit too hard, and then I was in trouble.
• For as long as I can remember he talked about me as if I was a sexual object. He talked about things like me needing a chastity belt, how all my bike riding and rough play probably meant I broke my hymen, how men would like how flexible I was and on and on
• He told me men would want me for sex and not be able to control themselves and I needed to know how to fight them off and that's why girls used to wear chastity belts.
• He gave me a book to read that was about a girl being captured and turned into a sex slave. It described how she was trained in great and x-rated detail
• He came into the bathroom when I was taking baths to look at me. This was unwanted and that made it more fun than him. I wasn't allowed to lock the door though. If I did I would get in trouble. I prefer the bath to the shower because at least then I can see and hear.
• As a kid, I was convinced someone came into my bedroom at night. That was terrifying to me.
• In therapy, I dissociate. I have heard myself telling my T, in a tiny voice that doesn't sound like mine, that it was him that came in at night.
• He went to bed long before the mom and I was sometimes called in to say goodnight. I have vivid memories of him inviting me into bed with him. He slept with the window open and it was really cold. I didn't want to. I knew he was naked. I did. And at that point my memory goes blank but has troubled me for many many years.
• I also remember being in bed with him and him telling me I was precocious. He asked me if I knew what that meant and I said "smart". He said sort of but what it really meant was advanced and for little girls it meant sexually advanced. And then that memory goes blank. Another blank that has long troubled me.
• I remember rough housing with him. And then I was on the floor and he was on top of me. The mom was in the kitchen. I remember the ... panic isn't quite the right word. Horror? Something. And then that memory goes blank.
• I have limited sexual experience because it makes me panic and feel trapped.
• Multiple past bf or gf have asked me if I was sexually abuse because... I don't completely know what they see on their end. I know there's a point where I freeze
• I have nightmares about sexual abuse
• I have long written poetry that implies I was abused. It troubled me because things in the poems weren't things I believed happen to me, but it was stuff I felt this desperate need to say
• In therapy, I have heard other parts of me describing things he has done to my T, although my head is buzzing now and I can't remember specifics
• We get panicked at the idea of seeing him again and still believe that he may come find us. And at times like this with it almost being father's day and my birthday coming up, it gets bad.
• We have "body feels". Things that aren't attached to memories exactly but come back again and again. A man on top of us, our hand being forced to touch something and being dirty, something in our mouth.
• I have been diagnosed with PTSD and DID
• I don't ever remember where nightmares and hypervigilance weren't a part of my life.

So, listing all that out. Do I really need proof? I know my memories have holes, but then again I know I tell T things. Is wanting outside proof keeping me from dealing with whatever I'm saying in therapy. And given all that above, how much more proof do I need? If I got my magical proof, would I still find reason to disbelieve? Is it time to stop doubting and just accept, even if my my memories have holes and confusion.

 

[EveHarrington]

Are the abusive things you describe not abusive to you? I see sexual abuse in what you describe. I’m guessing you’re looking for memories of full on penetration/rape?

 

[Freida]

Oh I so get this. I fought for a long time to say that until I had "proof" I was just making things up for attention. Body memories, missing memories, nightmares - none of it counted because I was in such deep denial. Even some of the medical records I have that back up my memories don't count. I lost track of how many times I've told my T that I must just be delusional or have some kind of sick need for attention.

But. There was enough I did remember to make it true - once I was ready to believe it. And much, much more came back along the way to back up what I felt. I think there will always be holes in my memory but those holes don't seem as important as they used to be because I'm no longer using them to deny what happened.

This list you have is pretty specific and details some pretty awful things that were done to you. Maybe look at it backwards? What would you tell someone who brought a list like this to you and asked your advice? Would what you see here be enough to believe something happened to them? Or would you tell them they needed more proof?

 

[Muttly]

@EveHarrington Well no.. not exactly? I guess, it's the holes in my memory and the things that I apparently say in therapy that bother me. I guess I'm worried that I'm filling in the holes by saying stuff in therapy that didn't necessarily happen?

I understand conceptually that it's me sitting there in therapy telling my T things that happened but... none of that seems real to me, so it's hard to believe. Especially since if I remember what I said in therapy it's all far away and fuzzy.

And to be fair, I guess most of the stuff I listed doesn't seem that bad? Not enough to justify being so frightened of him and cutting contact and having so much trouble with sex.

@Freida Yes, you do seem to get it. And if someone else wrote that list, I wouldn't be asking for more proof and would probably tell them to trust what they believe. Sigh.

 

[Suzetig]

And to be fair, I guess most of the stuff I listed doesn't seem that bad? Not enough to justify being so frightened of him and cutting contact and having so much trouble with sex.

The stuff you listed is that bad. Even if nothing else happened you’d be completely justified in cutting contact, being scared of him and yes it could cause very real difficulties with sex. But I’m guessing there’s been more from what you’ve said.

It’s time to believe yourself at very least about the stuff you do remember and be open to the idea there may have been other stuff? Think about how you would respond to a friend who told you all of this?

 

[EveHarrington]

No offense, and don’t take this the wrong way, but what you described made me nauseous and it made my skin crawl.

What you describe is waaaaaaay more than enough to cause the problems you have, the feelings you experience, and cutting him out of your life.

Do you hold the belief that only full on penetrative sexual abuse causes substantial lasting problems? This couldn’t be further from the truth.

I’m checking out at this point as it’s getting close to feeling dismissive of my trauma (even if that isn’t the intent, which I know it isn’t). I just can’t handle the opinion that ones trauma isn’t worthy unless it’s the worst of the worst, violent, etc etc etc.

 

[Muttly]

@EveHarrington I'm not trying to draw you back into this thread, if you need to do self care. I hope you do what's right for you. But I also feel like I need to respond to your question. I don't feel that only full on penetrative sexual abuse causes substantial lasting problems. Not at all.

I am trying to think how to explain this. So much of what my dad did was in the open. At least in front of the family and even in front of other people. I honestly think he liked doing things in front of other people. Like, I mentioned the ski poles. And the stuff that was done in front of the family was always explained as "he's playing" or "he's joking" or "he can't help it and doesn't mean anything by it". And he was doing the same sort of stuff to the mom. And she knew we were getting the same and rarely seemed bothered. And sometimes was simply relieved it was me, not her. And she was the one who would sometimes send me in to say goodnight to him. And when he did do things in front of people outside the family, no one ever really reacted. It was supposedly all play or teaching or games. So that's what makes it not seem so bad. And writing it out like that I can see how distorted that is but it's hard to override a message I received by multiple people (mostly family) in multiple ways.

And the blanks in my memory tend to circle around times when it would have been the two of us. The things we talk about in T, when it doesn't feel like I'm the one talking and I don't remember, were times it was just the two of us. So, there's sort of this divide in my brain. Between the stuff that was so bad I can't remember and/or it was done in secret and the stuff that was just... normal and was done in the open. Hmm... which I guess puts me in a double bind. Because that's the stuff I want proof of, but then there won't be proof from others because it was done in private.

And maybe... they both have a sense of unreal about them. Maybe that's part of the longing for "proof". A time I forgot to mention was when we were at a restaurant with the whole family. I was playing peek-a-boo with my nephew and every time I turned to my nephew or covered my eyes my dad would poke my side. Which in and of itself was annoying and not wanted. But then it turned into repeated touching my breast. And yeah, you could touch that by accident once, but not over and over. And I'm sitting there frozen and the family is all talking and there's all these people and then the waiter is at the table and this thing was happening to me that no one was seeing. Maybe that's part of the longing for proof? I just wanted to see (and to actually give a shit).

 

[Muttly]

Whenever I'm posting in this thread I get body feels. And yeah, I get it. My brain is trying to tell me something. I hate this.

@Suzetig If someone else told me this I would believe they had been through a lot and that there probably the other stuff they feared was true was true. And I know I'm not some special unique person where what applies to other people doesn't apply to me. But.... but... I guess I am running out of "buts" even though I still feel like denying.

 

[Freida]

But.... but... I guess I am running out of "buts" even though I still feel like denying.

It's taken me 3 years to admit I don't need to deny. And I STILL want to hide behind it more than I should. I think it is because if I stop denying then I have to face that there were people in the world who WANTED to harm me and my brain just can't get past that. It's one thing to admit it happened, but admitting that someone else was involved? Sometimes it's just to much to grasp. Now add that the person who did these things to you was your dad??? And denying makes so much sense. It doesn't help in the long run. But it is completely understandable

 

[Still Standing]

Do I really need proof?

@Muttly, my little sister has no memory of her childhood until she was 7 years old. And that one is of her hiding under a pile of sleeping bags, stored in the under storage area of the household staircase. She hears mom calling her and she does not move. She is terrified to come out. She hides in there for hours until she can tell mom's mood had calmed down. She has no proof for herself that she had bee abused prior to this memory but she knows she was. Given the history of our family, I have no doubt to disbelieve her. And I have no memory of her being abused, while I lived in the home, so I cannot directly validate her suspicions during that time. I can, after I moved out of the home and saw how mom treated her for years after, though. Her behavior and her panic and anxiety attacks, continue to this day. Knowing the character of our mom, there is no doubt in our minds that she suffered at her hands after all of us kids left home, leaving little sis in the home alone, in the care of mom. Perhaps, what you are really looking for is outside validation of your abuse, too. It would give you a sort of peace that others saw it or knew of your dad's behavior. But, if that never comes, you have you own mind to rely on. Though you are missing memories, it does not negate the truth of what you remember. It was real in your mind, and your body and mind are reacting to what you know to be true.

And if others saw it as being funny or "normal" teasing behavior, I would bet others saw it for what it was but refuse to speak up for fear of having to deal with the backlash against them for doing so. Most family members choose not to get involved in order to keep the peace. My two siblings, have to this day, refused to acknowledge my abuse or my youngest sister's, in the family. They saw plenty of mine, so it was not a mystery to them. It is not a mystery to yours either. To admit it, makes them involved in it either by direct actions or indirect. It is not worth the extra angst to keep wanting or looking for confirmation. So, don't keep looking for "proof". You have all the proof you need. That is you and your memories. Your dad was repulsive, a bully, insensitive, and sexually abusive and crossing moral boundaries with you. That is all the proof you need, too.

I guess most of the stuff I listed doesn't seem that bad?

Not seeing our abuse as being so bad is our way to survive the hurt. To have to look at it for what it was, full on, it is almost as threatening as the original abuses. It hurts and is terribly upsetting. But, your abuse was bad...totally inappropriate and cruel. You have every right to call it for what it was...abuse...sexual abuse. It is time for you believe in yourself. To believe in yourself is a huge step in going forward in your mental health care and healing. Admitting to what you know to be true, opens the door for you to step into more control of your own life. So, dig in and stand firm. It is absolutely time for you to believe in yourself!

 

[jaccat]

Like you, I've got holes in my memories and reasons to play down what I do know. There's no doubt in my mind that what you described was abuse, but I get why you might find that a struggle. In my case, what has helped me realise it wasn't nothing is realising it's not just the memories that tell me what happened, but me- my behaviours then and now, which didn't come from nowhere. If you start to ask yourself why, for example, you do things a certain way now, what might have happened in the past to cause you to react/behave/feel etc. the way you do, perhaps you'll begin to see that something must have caused it. If it wasn't anything, would you now be the way you are?

I'm hoping this makes sense and it doesn't read as completely muddled!

 

[Deleted member 8714]

@Muttly , I noticed you were diagnosed with DID and PTSD. I have the same diagnoses. For me denial was a huge way I coped with what happened to me. I needed to deny before I could get to a place where I just accepted that all of this crap happened to me. As for the sexual abuse part; I had vague memories, that is until I felt safe enough, i.e.; my mother's death. Then I started to remember the sexual abuse details. She used to call me a liar and that I had a great imagination. That added to my doubt and of course the denial as well.

The way my memories emerged about the sexual abuse were subtle at first and then more detailed.