ED Ptsd & eating disorders

[BlackbirdSinging]

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BB, like I said to MD it is your strong life affirming side that is wanting to eat. Be very careful as from what you describe about your situation you could be at a point where serious chemical changes are happening in your brain. Once you get to a certain point you can fall into a place where you become consumed in the illness. There is never any rest in the illness. No amount of deprivation ever brings peace. The only way out is out of the illness. And believe me I know how impossible that feels. But I am certain it isn't impossible for any of us.

Please be very careful. I am concerned about where you are heading. I really advice you to see an ED registered dietician if you are at all able. Especially since I know you are doing trauma work at present.

Thank you Abstract. For being concerned. I genuinely mean that. I want to say I wish I could stop but the reality is when anyone says anything to me about stopping and I think about stopping it scares the daylights out of me. My therapist has said she wants to address this more. She tries to get me to promise her that I'll eat 3 meals a day even if the meal is a yogurt. I can't ever promise her. I always cringe and tell her I can't promise. It scares me. All of it. And I know I shouldn't do it. But I don't want to stop. I'm so obsessed about the numbers and chasing them down. The idea of not doing that means then I'll gain weight right? Right. And scares and frustrates me.

 

[Abstract]

It is absolutely "normal" to be that afraid of stopping Blackbird. Really. If you did not feel as you describe feeling it wouldn't be an ED.

ED dieticians understand ED's and they should listen to your concerns. Many times they will agree to keep your weight as is at first and work on health and stability or even on stopping weight loss if that is still active. It can be an enormous help to speak about these things in detail and get proper help and tips and how to manage things rather than just being told to eat more. Usually we have no idea how to make things better on our own.

One of the reasons I recovered is because, after about 23 years of an ED, I decided I didn't have to want things to change, want anything better for myself or believe anything could change in order to take the next step forward and let that happen. One micro step at a time can get us to surprising places. You deserve not to make your life worse and thats what ED's really do.

 

[maddog]

Oh Abstract, I am so emotional at the moment, your message made me cry and cry! Thank you so much. It is almost painful, the extent to which you get it, and I really feel that. I want this to be better so so badly... I was just talking with T yesterday about the fact that the basic life functions of eating, sleeping and exercise were the three things that were turned into tools of torture and control during my childhood, and when those fundamental aspects of life are turned into tools of shame and fear and potentially life-threatening consequence, the entire world becomes a scary and destructive place, both externally and internally.

You know, as I read your last couple of posts, I had this flash of half-formed hope and intent that maybe I'll try to find an ED dietician to go and see... I have no idea if we even have such things here, let alone how I'd find one, and maybe my flash of intent will be gone before it's led anywhere, but maybe it's a good thing that for the first time I even thought about it. I don't feel like I can do this on my own, and while I know that T will work with me to the extent that he can, part of me feels as though this requires something more focused that isn't part of my trauma work. Maybe...

Thanks for saying what you said too about it being normal, in some sense, to want to eat when awake through the night. I suppose this is logical when I think about it - if you're awake and active, your body expects you to want to eat intermittently. Sometimes I just long for the reprieve of sleep and the time it could give me free of my food battle, and that time is so so brief, so almost non-existent at times, and I swear that the frantic need to eat is sometimes what partly wakes me up when I do doze off, or prevents me from falling asleep in general. Or maybe I'm just sometimes interpreting the frantic physically painful feelings I have when I startle awake as hunger, when probably they're not...

I am feeling physically worse these past couple of weeks than I have for a long long time. I know there are complicating medical issues, but I also feel as though my body is reaching some sort of threshold of nutritional abuse. My weight isn't changing, that's the part of this that is an objective reassurance but often a subjective distress factor for me, let alone what it actually says about what is happening/has happened to my body and my metabolism... but I feel sick, and desperately lacking in energy, and have other weird symptoms, like intense thirst at times, or rapidly cycling food cravings alternated with almost revulsion at the thought of food, and a horrible sense of being overwhelmed with salt...

I know I know, time to seek help, I know that... it just makes me cry. Why is there not one single aspect of myself that's ok. It's just so overwhelming. Which leads me back to the part of me that just wants to destroy myself.

This thread always always always brings me comfort, even as it is so confronting. This is the only place people really do understand.

 

[Abstract]

MD,

Much caring to you if it is OK. It is awfully painful stuff.

the fact that the basic life functions of eating, sleeping and exercise were the three things that were turned into tools of torture and control during my childhood, and when those fundamental aspects of life are turned into tools of shame and fear and potentially life-threatening consequence, the entire world becomes a scary and destructive place, both externally and internally.

Absolutely. And I think someone using these in the way that they were used against you is inhuman. There is no other word for it. You certainly are not the only one to have issues with all these three. And other stuff I won't mention. They are all very linked and I think we often turn them into ways of torturing ourselves.

Sleep, nutrition and exercise/movement are some of the very basics of living and being a human being. When these are distorted in any way through abuse or bad parenting it can be devastating. In order to do other things in our lives we need to be able to have our basic needs taken care of and manage basic self care. And distorting the ability to do these interferes with absolutely everything else. And if trauma is involved like it is for you then it is even more complicated. My family stuff to do with food would mostly not be considered traumatic and it was bad enough thank you.

I do truly believe it is possible to heal though. I have seen people with terrible experiences find healing with the correct help. They have ended up in the most dire situations with ED but have eventually found their way out.

I have when I startle awake as hunger, when probably they're not...

It could very well be hunger from the sounds of things. I understand the awfulness of experiencing hunger and the anger and resentment or despair when it is there again and again. Accepting hunger was one of the hardest things I had to do and was one of the last things to happen. But hunger is our friend just like anger is if we use it well.

I also feel as though my body is reaching some sort of threshold of nutritional abuse. My weight isn't changing,

Be very careful as when we have an ED for a long time then weight is not a reliable barometer of how our health is doing. There are lots of underlying things that can happen long term from lack of nutrition. For example low protein levels are not always evident and can take a long time to accumulate. I know you have other health concerns so it can be hard to figure out what is what (and somatic pains can be a factor too) but having something like a heart condition means it is imperative your health is monitored to do with your ED. Normal GP's or other dr's don't usually know the correct tests to do to get a proper idea of what is happening. A lot of risks can be managed if we get the right treatment and monitoring. I truly hope it is OK to say this. I know you have so much to deal with at present. I just know that ED health issues don't help at all.

I do happen to know that Australia (hope I am right you are there!) does have specialist ED dieticians and ED dr's. Noone can replace T's but really I think t's are not in the position to help us in the way we need help when it comes to nutrition and they shouldn't be involved either. Although challenging in some ways it can be enormously relieving to have someone helping with the nitty gritty of this stuff. I shan't say more as I don't want to overwhelm you or give you anything you don't want but let me know if you want me to elaborate. I truly hope this isn't too much. Feel free to disregard anything that you don't feel comfortable with.

Oh and thank you for sharing about teeth...

 

[maddog]

Abstract, your rsponses are never too much or overwhelming, in fact they takeaway some of the overwhelm, at least for a little while. It always impacts me in ways that are hard to describe, or even admit to, to hear others reflect back to me the significance of my childhood in terms of what and how I am today. I know that sounds laughably obvious, and even rather... I don't know... pitiful, but sometimes I get so caught up in the self-hate and shame of this all being what it is, that I completely lose hold of the knowledge that there are actually reasons for this, and horrible things done to me that caused it. Not surprisingly, acknowledging that there is good reason for all of this - reason other than the fact of my inherent horribleness, brings me more face-to-face with the sense of need and obligation to do something about it, and that is, for obvious reasons, very frightening.

And sadly, more and more frightening the more aware I am of how serious this is, such as the interplay with my heart condition etc.

I am happy for you to say more about anything you like, including the role of specialised ED dieticians, or anything... I want to promise myself that I'll at least look into this, just to arm myself with the knowledge and get used to it for a while. I hope I can.

I've just been drinking soup by the way, it's freezing and wet here tonight and I felt drawn to warm soup, so that's good...

Maddog

 

[Abstract]

Hi Md. Glad it was not too much. And I don't think what you describe is laughable, pitiable or anything other than understandable. I know that feeling of being so deep in the self hatred that logical thought can't intrude at all. It sometimes feels like a slip into an alternative reality in some respects.

Back to a proper ED dietician: I am not saying it isn't terrifying or very challenging of course. But it can also be very helpful and a relief. And I think there is something potentially very healing about having someone healthy be involved in guiding us directly to do with food when we have had unhealthy influences in the past.

A lot depends on how good the personality match is of course. But it seems to me that at the very least you need to be properly evaluated by an ED dr and then have some information and guidance on what you need to do to minimise harm. Even if you are not ready to attack it head on. Those with ED's always think they re nutritional experts but really we can't see the wood for the trees!

T's are there to discuss the emotional aspect and a dietician can give us practical advice and help find ways around the ED blocks.

Good for you for eating soup! If I may suggest something then think of how much you normally eat in a night and then start off planning to eat a similar amount. Starting quite early. Sometimes it can start breaking that awful power/control dynamic.

Feel free to ask me questions.

 

[Britt.f7]

and just as unsuccessfully battling to eat anything throughout the day

I'm like this. The nutritionist said I do not intake enough calories(though I am overweight and not losing). The time for me though is in the morning. That is usually when I am the hungriest. I want to eat even before I have my coffee. I try to wait though. Plus, I take so much medication, I need something else in my gut. However, even then, I don't overdo...but, if I were to binge, that would be then. Especially sweets. For the rest of the day I have a hard time getting myself to eat anything, even if I am hungry.

I'm sorry you felt you couldn't share in your group, but I understand all too well.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

Today hasn't been the best day. It wasn't terrible either though. But I'm apparently struggling with my ED too. I allowed myself to go too long without any food today. I wound up having an argument with someone and getting so angry that I went for a walk. I ended up feeling like I might faint. So I came home and had a good lunch. I had a decent dinner but I only ate half of it. Now I'm hungry. I know I should eat because I'm pretty sure I haven't had enough calories today. But I'm trying to ignore it. I'm like fighting with myself. Eat because I need to. Don't because I don't need to. This is frustrating.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I went shopping today and got some new clothes. And while I got smaller sizes I still can't shake the thoughts and feelings that I'm big for my size. This after weighing myself twice before I even left the house. I look at myself and I see the same image from before I started losing again.

 

[maddog]

Buying clothes is a terribly distressing trigger of my weight and eating issues too, partly because by its very nature it forces you to pay strict attention to your size relative to other things and people... I am trying very very hard, so far with success, to stay off my scales, because I know that whatever they tell me will set me off on yet another negative spiral.

I'm back into exercise at least to a certain degree, and am becoming aware that with my return to exercising is my return to obsessing about its potential to help me lose weight.

There is a girl with a significant ED (long-term anorexia I think) who has joined my trauma therapy group. I get along really well with her and enjoy our chats. Unfortunately, being near her, and near to her very obvious struggle and obsession with food and eating, is not good for me. I feel a horrific kind of competitive need to limit my food the way she does, and to somehow elicit the same comments from others about thinness that she does... I think she can definitely spot the ED behaviours in me too, and is drawn to me the same way I am drawn to her. She made a point of coming to tell me the other day how angry it makes her when certain staff watch what she eats and doesn't eat and ask her about it. I think she knew I would understand how humiliating and angering that is for her, and I think she also suspected I would side with her in her conclusion that such monitoring only makes her want to restrict her food even more. I tried to be neutral, but inside I felt all of the understanding and agreeance that I knew I shouldn't be feeling, let alone conveying.

this is a bad bad thing, and something I need to try to deal with. Somehow.

And I promised myself that I would tell my therapist that I was going to try to find an ED dietician - telling him was going to be my way of being accountable for doing it. Needless to say... I didn't. I didn't tell him, and I haven't done anything about it.

Yet... I keep trying to add that word to the end of my thoughts of failure about this. I haven't done it... yet. That doesn't mean I can't.

Maddog

 

[CraftyCath]

I have never been diagnosed with an eating disorder but I do have eating problems as a result of my PTSD.

If I am anxious I cannot eat at all. i could do with loosing a few ponds so I don't let it worry me as i know I will eat when I can. But I struggle to eat in public, even with people I know well.

When I was a child I hated mashed or boiled potatoes but it seems that they were always on the menu. I went to a catholic primary school where mashed potatoes and soggy vegetables were served every day except Fridays (when it was fish and chips). I could not eat those soggy veg but we were not allowed to leave the table until it was gone. We were allowed to leave the potato and always had to scrape the left overs into a bin so clever CC formulated a plan.. I would ask for 2 scoops of grey, lumpy potato then scoop out the underside, fill it full of the vegetables and stick the rest of the potato over the bottom to seal it! I then scraped them into the bin and no one ever suspected thing - genius!

Of course, this meant that I only got some chewy meat for lunch and spend my days very hungry! My grand mother would make me eat the potato. She would hold my nose, shove the food in and make me swallow. She didn't care that I was choking! Then I would cry and she would beat me until I stopped. But my problems with food only came out after my biggest trauma when I was 21 and it took years for me to realise that that is why I have such difficulties. If I feel too full I just want to vomit but I have a phobia of that too due to being punished for it as a child so I tend to eat small amounts, often with just one glass of wine to help wash it down.

Now if I don't want to eat I won't and stuff the people who think I'm odd although it still bothers me with family as I have never explained why I react like this not could I ever tell them. They would not believe me anyway.

 

[maddog]

Thesedays, I am almost entirely unable to eat in public. This is much much worse than it used to be and is probably the most stable of my eating difficulties. I just... can't, and don't even want to try, and am oddly almost completely untempted by food when other people are around, even when I would otherwise be hungry or likely to eat. If I didn't live alone, I suspect I would not eat at all.

Maddog