Scapegoating Or The Root Cause????

[Mammo]

It's a well-known term used in describing a well-defined relationship dynamic in codependent familie...

Hey, thanks for the links mate...
Hmmm....not sure, the gas lighting thing (especially the original film) seems to be about people doing that with malicious intentions...I don't think thats the case here...though the situation does certainly leave me feeling "nuts" - I don't think they intend to be mean...or steal my grandmothers' jewellery :)

 

[DogwoodTree]

Re: "If i don't sort myself out my mum will die"...not my words unfortunately, my siblings said this, 3 times...

tried pointing that out to my brother but this was perceived as me "projecting";

it's just really hard not to think you're going insane when there's multiple intelligent, well-educated people who do care about you, telling you that you're the problem...

don't think they intend to be mean...or steal my grandmothers' jewellery

Gaslighting isn't about stealing jewelry...it doesn't even have to be done maliciously. It's a relational dynamic...a pattern of relating...that shows up fairly consistently in dysfunctional families.

Gaslighting is when people say...you don't get to have your own experience of reality. If you interpret reality differently than I/we do, it's because you're crazy (NOT because you might have a valid point about something we don't want to face).

 

[Ronin]

I want to Superlike that recent post of yours, @DogwoodTree. :)

 

[Friday]

Gaslighting is when people say...you don't get to have your own experience of reality. If you interpret reality differently than I/we do, it's because you're crazy (NOT because you might have a valid point about something we don't want to face).

I just brought this up yesterday in a different thread... My thenHusband actually said to me:

Who are you gonna believe??? Me, or your own eyes?

I busted up laughing. He didn't think it was funny. But dayum, man. You ain't got me so twisted round your finger as you think, if that was something you thought would sway me. FFS. I have been there. To where such a statement would make me question my own reality, and believe his. But not with him.

 

[Flower Power]

I just want to say that the hardest thing I have had to do with my crazy family was resign as the "scapegoat". My therapist told me that when we speak the truth and own our issues related to family abuse and then leave to go else where beyond their abusive reach, then they are left with their own issues and they really don't know how to function without having someone to blame and put all their sins on. All that comes home to roost and they can become really beyond nuts trying to drag you back in so you will re-assume your role in the family dysfunctional structure. In an alcoholic abusive family the denial beats very loud drums. It sounds that maybe your mother is having to own the truth about the damage in her children, as she sees the price you are paying for her denial. It sounds like your mother is a battered woman and abused herself. Emeshment with the non-violent parent is not uncommon, and when we leave, if they have been trying to live their lives through us often it is "come to Jesus time" and people that have lived centuries denying the pain and abuse often have to crack open before they can heal, because they have pushed so much down that it finally has to come out. It sounds like the most healthy thing you have done is relocated. And you are not your mother, your are not causing the cracks in her walls, she is, because of wanting to continue living in denial. Sometimes waking up isn't all that fun and people have to be drug into conciousness kicking and screaming. Don't you dare own this, just because all siblings (flying monkeys) are pissed because the scapegoat left, and she is playing her role so she can claim the victim role, and then everyone can be in agreement, that it is still your fault...And even abuse Daddy is a victim of the truth,...BS, total unadulterated dysfunctional family BS. Everyone join hands and we will all agree it is her fault, and we can go back to being the good children in the group... They want to crawl back into their holes, and they are probably angry at your daring to even claim abuse, and it is all your fantasy, and quit rocking the boat... Just because all want to agree it is someone elses fault, (it's worked in the past or they wouldn't be trying so hard now to re-enlist you in this role. Doesn't mean its your fault, and its not your job. You can pray for your mom . And release her to God to heal. You don't have the power to make her sick or heal her either one. If I take a pill will you get well?...I don't think so..Con't loving yourself enough to not get sucked in to all the high drama and desperation to get you to play the old game and be the black sheep for everyone elses benefit, at the expense of your own mental health. Signed fellow, black sheep, recently resigned.

 

[Stickler]

My thought...you're several thousand miles away.
Tell them you're stabilized and happy on Obecalp, and doing just excellently...
All without them, thank you very much...
Thanks for the concern, but you are doing great!

...:sneaky: BWAHAHAHA!
It'd be like a group rendition of the exorcist, spinning heads and pea soup everywhere.

Now, poo-stirring opportunities aside...

...Unless you are dumping salt in her food, or stealing her pills, you are not making your mom any sicker.
Who's making mom sicker? Mom is.
To get attention. To manipulate.
Or maybe even to self-injure out of sheer distress?

Her choice. Not yours.

Your dad is probably making her sicker too, but oh my gawd! We can't mention all the stress caused by living with domestic oppression. Nope. Can't hold dad responsible.

I would give their chains a good hard pull, as above, and run like hell.:laugh:

 

[scout86]

One of the hardest things I've had to wrap my brain around the past year is the fact that I am NOT the craziest, most dysfunctional member of my family. It would be so much easier if everything really WAS "my fault".

Your T isn't likely to say things "just to make you feel better". I've wondered that about mine a few times. Then he says something like "No, actually, you're wrong about that." (Oh, he says it nicely, but that's his point.)

Adults are responsible for themselves. You are responsible for your own mental health, so's your mother. Actually MY mother would have been quite capable of creating a crisis like that for.......? You know, I never quite got the reasoning. Attention? Getting what ever it was she wanted? And my "job" was sometimes to be the cause of "her" problem. Because SOMEONE had to be. But she was often the poor, helpless, put upon victim who needed to be rescued. And someone else was always responsible.

Don't buy into it! If you talk to your mother, something like "Gee Mom, maybe you should see a shrink........"? (My T once suggested that my mother might be a nicer person on Valium. LOL I suggested it to her. Didn't go over real well, but it was fun.)

I have a ton of sympathy for YOU. The rest of the gang needs to wake up.

 

[Mammo]

hi @Flower Power; @Stickler and @scout86 - thank you all of you for your replies. I appreciate them a great deal.

By way of update, I've not had any further random calls from my siblings...which is certainly a relief...there's enough going on already.

I called my Mum on Monday...bit odd...she talked a bit about her "meltdown" - she sounded embarrassed and sheepish about it. Which she shouldn't do. But it was largely discussed in a no-big-deal manner. She said that she has "learned her lesson" from not taking medication for her blood pressure...and then said I should do the same...because now she's been through what she went through the other week...now she understands. So, the takeaway message was: take your pills.

Granted - not in a menacing or aggressive way.

I don't take any medication. I have tried them previously, for me personally, didn't do anything. As part of a horrendous involuntary hospitalisation in NYC 4 years ago, I was dogmatically told that I had a chemical imbalance in my brain and thus *have to* take the pills for life. I didn't I spat them out in the hospital - that little act of rebellion was the only thing that kept me going in that sh*thole of a place.

So after that I've never taken anything.

I asked my T today, "Am I "sick"? What if anything is wrong with me?" My family seem adamant that I am "ill." A number of friends seem materially concerned...

I'm mortified that I'm turning into a female Woody-Allen caricature.

He says he has no answers. Today he suggested that maybe I go and speak to another T (as a one off) to see if the other T can explain things better to me. I have a bad feeling that I'm not doing this right...and that he's starting to give up.

Anyway...rant over, thank you all once again for your support on this.

 

[scout86]

I have a bad feeling that I'm not doing this right...

That you're not doing what right? Having PTSD?

"Ill" means different things to different people. I have a friend who's been diagnosed with "anxiety". She's been on Prozac for years. It works for her, no side effects, and she wouldn't dream of changing things up. Maybe she has a chemical imbalance of some sort and really needs the stuff like a diabetic needs insulin. It works for her, no apparent harm, that seems fine. But everyone's different. My T says that for a lot of people, therapy can rewire your brain and "balance" things. Not a direct quote, but my take on his idea. I don't take any meds. He's mentioned a couple of times that other T's might suggest that I did, but that's been the extent of that.

So, are you "ill" in the sense that if you had an infection and took antibiotics for awhile, you'd be cured? Probably not. In the "a diabetic needs insulin" sense? Maybe, but maybe not too, sense you're managing without. "Ill" in the sense that your brain is wired differently that most people and you have problems with some things but you're working on them? Yeah, in that sense maybe you're "ill".

and that he's starting to give up.

You should maybe flat out ask him that. It won't help any to keep the thought to yourself and worry about it. We all seem to think that way now and then and, often, we're wrong. Good to know, right? But, if he IS giving up on you, that's him reaching his limitations, not you being "impossible" and finding someone with different limitations to work with might be a good idea.

I'm glad the dust has settled some with your family. They probably just panicked and did the first thing that came to mind, not what made the most sense. Your mom sounds like she's back on track, so maybe things will stay settled down for awhile.

 

[Stickler]

Well...Obecalp...Placebo...AKA sugar pills...what they give people in drug trials to see if the drug performs better than a fake pill?

In other words, I was joking, but also seriously suggesting you tell your family you are on meds. They won't know you aren't.

I take meds. I do badly on them, but even worse without.

 

[Mammo]

That you're not doing what right? Having PTSD?

"Ill" means different things to different people. I hav...

Hi Scout.

Re "That you're not doing what right?" - the therapy he's trying is ISTDP (physically feeling feelings/emotions) and I am not very good at that...

I just got an email from my sister this morning pushing me to:
- see doctor to get pills
- provide a regular breakdown of my "treatment care plan" to my Mum - so she feels better.

I know I'm probably being childish...but part of me sits here and thinks, "Why? It's none of their business." I feel like I'm being treated as "sick" and infantilised. I'm so over this.

 

[Mammo]

Well...Obecalp...Placebo...AKA sugar pills...what they give people in drug trials to see if the drug pe...

Hey,

I told my sister I have an appointment with a "Doctor" on Friday. I don't want to lie to people, it's not "me", but they don't seem willing to accept my right to have a different opinion on this, so I'll tell them I'm taking something...it can be the ultimate placebo effect...I (pretend to) take pills, and it makes completely different people feel better....

...WTF.