News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[Kim A4]

PS Correction to my time since injection above...it is now 16 weeks post-SGB and I am doing very well. K

 

[Kim A4]

TLight, sorry about your denial from Lipov's list. My guess is that you are not a combat veteran(?) and I am pretty sure that the waiting list for a "free" SGB study treatment is prioritized for combat vets. Even if you were a vet and put on the list, the wait could be a long time, as participants are only picked once enough money comes to Lipov in the form of private donations to his non-profit organization, Chicago Medical Innovations. Funds need to be there to transport vets to and from the clinic as well, so the list moves very slowly. If you can get the funds and can get to Chicago for an overnight stay, I do not see why Lipov would not consider the procedure, unless there are other medical health risk factors. I hope that helps with your understandable feeling of rejection a little. Hang in there.

In regards to Lipov falling into a messy study situation surrounding patient diagnostics, I am hopeful that will not be the case. All the initial studies along Lipov's current funding request path will be done through the annoyingly tight supervision of the US Department of Defense, with, I assume, strict criteria overseeing the selection of PTSD-diagnosed veterans. As I mentioned in a prior post, with MEG technology, the area of the brain that the SGB targets can be imaged to visually confirm PTSD activity before and (a lack thereof) after within 30 minutes of the injection, so there is the beauty of visual confirmation that the injection affected the part of the brain that was intended. Focusing on these criteria should allow less ability to reach false conclusions and keep prior psych diagnostic complications out of the way. Controlled questionnaires on PTSD symptoms may be administered prior and after SGB well to support the emotional effect from patient testimony.

 

[brink]

Please don't be concerned about not being able to get the procedure at all if you were denied in a clinical trial. Medical research is very specific in the way it is done, and they have specific reasons for wanting to use particular kinds of subjects, and they screen them thoroughly. It's quite routine as they need to be sure they are comparing apples to apples, with regard to whatever they're researching.

Because there is no "formal" diagnosis of complex trauma, it could be argued during the peer review process for any papers he might wish to publish that the study did not look at PTSD patients, which would be disastrous for his work. Since we want his work to move forward, we should understand this. Know that this is coming from a person with "complex trauma" herself, but I also work in the area of medical research and know how careful and meticulous these researchers have to be in order to get their results published.

 

[anthony]

I actually think one area they need to review surrounding SGB is medication. Prior to treatment, medication is either fully withdrawn from or near fully... as it seems to be quite the hindrance of showing whether the treatment is effective in PTSD only or not... as the results even posted here so far are about 50/50... totally good for some, a little relief for others, but still PTSD.

I do look forward to when accurate results are obtained through a good cross sectional demographic.

 

[TLight]

I totally agree with Anthony. Seems medications should be completely gone to get accurate results. But in this world, funding is what is important to researchers. Hate to be negative, but if they can go forward with funding despite the 'quality' of their proposed study, they will. Money rules.

 

[brink]

True to a point, but peer review is still the standard in getting papers published, and peer-review is a pretty rigorous process. The problem is that it's also increasingly easy to get press about "research" that isn't held to such rigorous standards. It's a shame. Agree that there are many complicating factors in this research, and that's the rule rather than the exception. It's very rare for research to show groundbreaking or striking results. More often, the gains are incremental.

 

[anthony]

Exactly... and right now, the research just doesn't exist for SGB in relation to PTSD... its purely theoretical with very limited actual feedback or data on how minute or extreme the PTSD was, etc.

At present, especially the US, if you stub your toe you are diagnosed with PTSD. Too many therapists assume these days, because a traumatic event has been endured, they just skip commonsense and rationalism, and jump straight to PTSD or a diagnosis, followed by therapy / medication, because its business $$$! The US is showing zero signs of economic growth and employment, and that absolutely is impacting the validity of any therapeutic data right now from the US.

People within this invalid misdiagnosed window of PTSD being treated, could show positive results vs. those who are more severe spectrum. Its proven, empirically, how easily it is to fool a therapist to get a diagnosis of PTSD by telling them what they want to hear, not even having it to begin with.

Its not those with PTSD that are treatable through therapy that's the problem with PTSD or the cost to a country, its those 6 - 7% of the PTSD population that are lifetime PTSD that are the problem. If a treatment can knock out 70 - 80% of that figure and cure PTSD with a shot, then that is a massive burden lifted from every Government that takes part in using the treatment.

Then again... it could just be all hot wind like the majority of other treatments that don't stand the test of time.

Either way, I remain seated on the fence about SGB at this present time, not swaying one way or the other, and won't do so for some years yet.

 

[brink]

I know, Anthony. I have a dear friend who recently discovered that her husband is having an affair. She told me that she's "dealing with PTSD" because of this. I held my tongue because I know she's going through a very difficult time, but what I wanted to do was tell her she's trivializing a very serious mental health problem by saying such a thing.

Now, if she can explain to me that the affair triggered memories or flashbacks of something that really does rise to the level of PTSD, we might have a different situation. But I think too many times the term "trauma" is tossed around a little too casually.

 

[Aj]

brink: PTSD is the overall problem, but psychological changes occur over years of repetitive patterns, specifically avoidance and anxiety. I think you must confront those things slowly but frequently as to decondition yourself. As for meds, absolutely some people need them. I had a history of mild depression before my PTSD, so now that the anxiety is under control I feel more confident that the requirement for medication is minimal. However, should that change I will absolutely return to meds. They're not the cure, but they certainly can aid the recovery. And thank you, I will certainly do my best!

TLight: Those are certainly quite a few diagnosis to contend with, and you have my sympathy. While I would understand not being a suitable "trial" canditate, I believe seeking an independent route would be beneficial if you're absolutely sure you want the procedure. Find a reputable pain management specialist (or three) willing to consider the procedure.

KimA4: Let Lipov's office know if they need any other "after" people, I'm here. And thanks for such kind words yourself. Btw, I think the whole recent admission of condolence is because the government was in a state that if they admit that battle fatigue caused such severe emotional trauma they would be held responsible for every soldier who suffered post traumatic stresses or to their families. I'm not entirely sure how that works, in re: families of military suicide victims.

anthony: I absolutely believe the PTSD is gone, or almost completely resolved. I got mine from a bad accident and my "triggers" since have not affected me at all following my SGB. I am still personally shocked by this. It's freaking fantastic to not have that worry. As for the medication withdrawal, that has been a whole other barrel of monkeys to deal with. I'm pretty much getting over it now. I feel more clear headed than before thanks to the block and with the patience and diligence it's afforded me, I'm willing to tackle my problems by giving them the time and attention they need instead of falling into the anxiety/fear cycle I used to do.

anthony, TLight: Re: Medication, I was on literally the smallest dose of zoloft when I got my injection (12.5, or half of a 25mg). I had been on Zoloft for so long, however, that it simply builds in your system and takes a long time to filter out. I know from personal experience that quitting an SSRI is easier said than done. A recent medical study equated it to quiting heroin. Despite it's short half life (zoloft's at least), it still "builds" in your system making withdrawal a nightmare and taking a lot of time for your brain (and body) to properly recover. Sometimes 3-6 weeks.

 

[TLight]

Thanks Aj, I might still pursue the route of an independent pain specialist. I've already been told no by one. And the process of having to make appts, not being to talk to them on the phone, etc etc seems overwhelming and cubersome to me. Before I knew I had PTSD, I was diagnosed with Fibro/CFS and in horrible pain and exhaustion. I saw MANY doctors, was treated horribly by a majority of them, was desparate for help and that whole experience in itself was traumatizing. So the thought of doing all this doctor searching for a pain specialist brings up crap for me.....I'd describe it a aborhence. I'm so sick of doctors.

I called Dr. Lipov's office today and asked if he's be willing to do the procedure if I paid outright for it. The answer again was 'no,' with no explanation allowed to be given other than 'he thinks it wouldn't be able to help you.'

There you have it. Complex developmental trauma with dissociative disorder. Urghh.....

I think I'll go back to what is working for me now........his name is Riley and he's a 15 3 hand Appendix QH and we ride and ride and ride. Although I'm currently having to look for a different barn due to this place being managed like a playground for the owners kids and dangerous paddocks and turnout. I blew my top yesterday. Still recovering from it, the intensity of the anger and rage. No sleep last night again.

My God....I'd do anything to get some deceit sleep. The drugs aren't even knocking me out anymore. Too many years with no sleep then trying to sleep all day and just feeling overwhelming hypervigilance and generally crappy, crabby, angry, and irritable. No way to live life.

I guess I'm going to give up on this route, at least for now.

 

[anthony]

Scrimp, scrounge and save to just pay for the treatment TLight, if possible.

 

[brink]

I'm sorry, Tlight. I guess that puts it out of reach for me, too. That's really sad for us, but not unexpected, I guess. Those of us with complex trauma seem to constantly end up in no-man's land.