• We are a multilingual website again. Read the notice about this.
  • Understand AI use at MyPTSD: all AI use is explained in our AI help page. AI use is by choice here. It exists if you want it, but does nothing unless you choose to use it.

Something so wrong or so right? CB/CD in faith and spirituality

Status
Not open for further replies.
So I go back to it must be something about me, something I did/do wrong that either continues to/or caused me to incur God's wrath.
JMO

I believe in the idea of "free will". So I tend to think that bad stuff happens, at least the intentional bad stuff, because "free will" is one of the rules of the game and people get to make horrendous choices while God cringes. I'm not actually sure that's what going on. Maybe God's busy else where. Maybe God just gave the universe we live in a shove to start things off and moved on the the next part of the multiverse. I really don't know. What I DO know is that, any given day, bad stuff happens to good people and good stuff happens to bad people. It makes no sense that this is governed by the quality of the people involved. There are thousands of little kids, born in Syria or Afghanistan, or any of a number of other unfortunate places. They don't get that life because they DESERVE it. They don't deserve to struggle any more than I deserve to live in relative affluence. It just IS. Life is like a card game. You're dealt your hand and it's the only hand you have to play. From there on, it's about choices. Pick up the cards? Give it your best shot? Fold and sit out the game? Tons of choices but "deserving" has nothing to do with the hand you're dealt.
 
Alternative perspective - probably not a popular one...

I actually can’t wrap my head around the idea that if there is a God, he’s sitting up there paying attention to the details of the daily lives of 6 billion people, and that he can and does intervene in those daily lives.

Childhood cancer seems to be really good evidence that he’s not up there intervening in our lives. Not necessarily a “God doesn’t care” thing. Just a “God doesn’t intervene” thing.

Tbh, God intervening was never a concept that got drilled into us when I was a kid at Sunday school, or at the religious school I went to. We were absolutely taught that God is watching, and paying attention. But not that he took over and started pulling on puppet strings to change outcomes here on earth during our earthly lives - that wasn’t ever what the whole God thing was about.

It was far more about: (a) God loves you, period; and (b) try and be a morally good person so that your soul will go to a good place in the next life. Helping us figure out that moral code, so that we could be good people, was a big part of the education. The concept that God can and does intervene in this life simply wasn’t ever part of the deal.

So, I can’t help thinking that it’s very possible to not only believe in God, but also believe in a Christian God (which seems to be the particular deity being discussed here) without ‘intervention’ or ‘God’s allowing these things to happen’ being part of that belief system.

There’s a great big leap between “God is watching” to “God is intervening”. Not all Christians make that leap.

And, if God isn’t intervening? Then the things that happen to you in this life really have nothing to do with God. Humans are responsible for the shit that goes on in this life, not God.

ETA: that perspective of God puts a much greater emphasis on the God described in the New Testament. Certainly the God described in the Old Testament was a pretty vengeful, interfering sort of character and Satan and angels were constantly getting up amomgst it here on earth. The Old Testament seems very much a fear-based deity, whereas the New Testament God shifts that focus to love & eternal life. But that’s just my observation.
 
Last edited:
I wrestle with this a lot. Feel free to disregard my thoughts and wrestling with this question if it’s not helpful. It’s just where I’m at with it all.
I am not saying I don't believe in God my struggle is how can a kind, loving & merciful God that is capable of anything and everything allow the things that he does?
The “problem of pain” is one that people have struggled with in the Christian faith for thousands of years. The best and most honest writer I’ve found on this subject is a book by Phillip Yancey called “Where is God When It Hurts.” He wrestled though this difficult subject of why God allows pin and doesn’t stop it from happening. (The electronic version happens to be super cheap on a couple of major booksellers lately and I’ve been re-reading it this past week.)
I was brought up christian, I have spent years studying my faith, seeking answers, solace, forgiveness, unconditional love but my biggest question still remains why? Why me, why anyone that has been abused and/or traumatized, why does he allow it to happen and why does he allow some to be abused/traumatized multiple times? So I go back to it must be something about me, something I did/do wrong that either continues to/or caused me to incur God's wrath. And if it's not that if it was a bet a between God and Satan like in the book of Job than how can I believe in/have faith in such a fickle creature?
For awhile, I thought God might be an a—hole. I have wrestled long and hard, and sometimes still do. I don’t know why God allows the pain that he does allow in the world. But I know that the answer isn’t as simple as bad thing happens to person therefore the person must be bad. There are a handful of stories in the New Testament where someone who is sick or ill or injured comes up to Jesus and asks for healing and the disciples, the very followers of Christ asked, “whose fault was it?” In one case, they ask if it was a blind man’s fault he was blind or was it his parents sin? Back then, blindness was believed to be a result of someone’s sin. Jesus explains quite clearly it was neither him nor his parents who sinned, but that situation happened so that the glory of God could be revealed, and then Jesus heals the man. While the story isn’t a very satisfying in regards to why it happened the way it did, it does eliminate the math of bad things happen to a person so therefore the person did something to deserve it.

Then there is the story of Moses. He defies the odds and leads the Jews out of captivity in Egypt and then gets lost in the desert. As they wander the desert for years on end, Moses faithfully follows God, more closely than anyone. Then he screws up and gets pissed with the people around him and instead of doing what God said, which is to strike a rock once for water... he strikes it twice. And for that mistake, he doesn’t get to enter the promised land in his lifetime. The main goal of the whole journey!

That story used to piss me off. It wasn’t the biggest mistake. Why take away being able to reach the land of milk and honey, quite literally promised to Moses? But then in one of Yancey’s books, he points out that it wasn’t the end of the story. Moses was transfigured with Christ himself in the promised land. It blew the mind of the disciples who saw it happen. He did end up in the promised land in the most incredible way possible.

Jesus spoke extremely strongly of perps that harm children suggesting they should basically off themselves in a hurry, by hanging a millstone around their necks and drown themselves, and said as much in a time when children were not regarded well.

No where does Christ suggest little ones should be abused because they sinned. When people try to do so much as shoo away kids, probably so that they could hear Christ preach better, Jesus pulls the children in closer. He tells everyone their angels are quite close to God.

Jesus ran towards the rejected, the abused, the downtrodden, the weak and vulnerable... AND those who made horrible mistakes, the sinners ... and did not condemn them. He would step in and protect them, even placing his reputation and life on the line to protect those who were verifiably terrible sinners and lawbreakers. It’s not about sin and earning good or bad things and God’s protection. The people Christ did condemn? The religious hypocrites who thought they were perfect and all that. The stone throwers. Not those abused and broken.

Why is the abuse allowed in the first place? I don’t know. But I do know is not the end of the story.

The question your therapist asked is kinda like one a pastor asked of me. He said that the pain I had been through in my life made him wonder why God trusted me so much? It kind of surprised me. Wasn’t sure what to make of it.

I think it actually makes a lot more sense to look at the reality that, for whatever reason, God allowed darkness to enter the world, free will and the evil one, and thus all this crap happens.... and that’s not the full story. It goes on. When Job cries out in pain from all of his losses, some of Job’s friends tell Job he must have screwed up and sinned to deserve all that happened. God rebukes them. Job pleads with God that he is a good person... and God goes on to basically explain He is God, He has a plan... and the story didn’t end there. The ending of that story is amazing. Job didn’t just suffer. That’s not the full story of his life. All that he lost was given back and so much more.

Ok so, I know, why did Job suffer in the first place? I don’t know, but God himself actually submitted himself to this very dynamic. He didn’t just decide humans should be at risk of great suffering but suffers with us. Deemed it worthwhile... maybe because of the end of the story? I’m not sure.

For awhile, after Christ died, everyone thought God abandoned them to hopelessness and pain and abuse by the Romans. Even Jesus himself asked why did God forsake himself on the cross enduring horrific pain and being killed by the Romans who were really f—ing good at torturous deaths. The question is never totally fully answered, but it’s not the end of the story. God redeemed death. Abuse. Torture. And raised Christ from the dead.

It’s a weird mystery.

Then there is the story of Jesus and Lazarus. Mary laments to Christ that he came too slowly (I personally rant at God from time to time that he moves too slowly.) Mary tells Christ that if he would have simply come faster, her brother would not have died. Jesus knows he is going to raise Lazarus from the dead, he knows the story for them ends well. But he sees the pain and suffering of Mary and weeps. Flat out cries. God is a God of empathy. He entered our pain and is close to it.

I don’t believe at all that God didn’t stop the perps from harming you because he thought you deserved it. It’s just not his style. It kind of pisses me off regularly that God allows such horrible things to happen to people. He somehow deemed it worthwhile to give humans free will and some humans choose to totally embrace what is so evil and harm children. The evil one, the father of lies, adds fuel to that fire and then whispers to the victims... “you deserved it.” And it’s a f—ing lie. Not true. Satan wants to hold you back. F him. I struggle with trust in God and doubt all the time... but I do believe abuse and trauma is not the end to your story or mine.
 
Last edited:
So I go back to it must be something about me, something I did/do wrong that either continues to/or caused me to incur God's wrath.

Is your pain God's wrath? Or the ptsd? Or the trauma?

Or are you saying that before you were abused you did something so big, so bad, so memorable that God put a evil perpetrator in your life to punish you?

I don't think you did but you need to work that out for yourself.

Today I too was wondering why I got ptsd. I wasn't wondering why there was trauma and perpetrators in my life... more why the trauma manifested ptsd in me. A real why me question. I haven't found the answer yet either.

Good luck with finding your answer.
:hug:
 
Would you want a Jewish perspective? I don’t really have a ton to say, but it seems to me that the main thing we do is help each other. All the prayers I know ask for help for other people (if not to just allow us to listen), and then the expectation is that we offer that help, if that makes sense. So every evil can be fought by humans, and humans get the opportunities to grow from that evil and be stronger than that evil.

That’s sort of how I view PTSD. I was exposed to evil, but rejected it. Because it couldn’t be processed by my brain, I got PTSD. But I didn’t become a crazy psychopath. My dad had the same choice, but he chose to be evil and self-centered. I still feel pity for him, but it is what it is.

When we help each other and leave the word better than when we found it, we’ve done God’s work.

I have no idea why humans do evil, and no idea why sometimes nature has to cause harm before new trees can grow (that’s part of my scientist’s perspective, if you want that? — but tiny short version is that baby trees will have to wait YEARS for a natural disaster before they get a chance to grow as big as their parents), but in the end we’re left with that power to do the right thing and offer help and support to those in our community. If that isn’t too vague :)
 
May I humbly submit that the problem of "why does God allow this to happen" disappears completely when you take God out of the equation.

Because then it's a problem of why this happened. And the answer is that there is no answer. You are neither better nor worse than anyone else. Bad things happen to people. Good things happen to people. People are capable of doing bad and good things to other people.

The answer is, because we're all just people.
 
Hi. I used to struggle with the same question as you until I read a book called, "When Bad Things Happen To Good People." It was written by a conservative Rabbi by the name of Harold Kushner and I highly recommend it for you. It is a small paperback book and is relatively inexpensive. I hope it helps you as much as it helped me.

Lionheart777
 
Thank you everyone for all the different perspectives. Sorry I have been absent for a few days. It was a struggle this week with chronic pain issues flaring and making me question whether I should take a planned business trip or not. Short story I did and now I am a long way from home dealing with health crap and just thankful that I never travel without my entire pharmacy so I should be able to manage.

As for free will, good or bad people, God's wrath (which I have always thought allowed the traumas), does God actually pay attention and intervene, when is the beginning or end of any given story - Moses, Job, Me, was I exposed to evil and grew from it, evil caused my PTSD because I didn't succumb to evil?, why does God allow bad things to happen to good people. These are all good questions, perspectives and/or ideas to contemplate. I have read Kushner's book, I have read Yancy, Lewis (the Screwtape Letters), Merton (Seven Story Mountain), St. John of the Cross (Dark Night of the Soul), Strobel (The Case for Faith) and I continue to read and study.

It is nice to know that I am not the only person that struggles with this and I know it if very much fed by cognitive distortions that have been pounded into me since childhood from things like I am bad, I am not good enough, I always screw up, my faith is dead (thank you to the Priest that thought saying this was a way to encourage me to attend church and faith activities more often), you deserve what you get, etc. etc. I am sure you all had similar and worse things said to you just as I did. It is a difficult struggle sometimes.trying to have faith in a God that is capable of so much and yet allows large populations of humans to suffer horribly. I pray but at times is seems my prayers fall on deaf ears and that sometimes I worry that if I pray to ask for his intervention on behalf of someone else that the situation will not get better or will get worse because I am the one praying.
 
now I am a long way from home dealing with health crap and just thankful that I never travel without my entire pharmacy so I should be able to manage.
I'm REALLY sorry to hear that! I hope the pharmacy does the trick and you're feeling better soon!
It is nice to know that I am not the only person that struggles with this
We're a strange tribe, but at least we're a tribe. LOL :)
 
am sure you all had similar and worse things said to you just as I did.
Yep...
It is a difficult struggle sometimes.trying to have faith in a God that is capable of so much and yet allows large populations of humans to suffer horribly. I pray but at times is seems my prayers fall on deaf ears and that sometimes I worry that if I pray to ask for his intervention on behalf of someone else that the situation will not get better or will get worse because I am the one praying.
I have had this same worry. I remember one time that I prayed "God's will be done..." in a specific situation, and I was filled with fear that it would be done and it would be horrible for me. It ended up being amazing for my life, but still. It doesn't always work out that way. But then God is a God of love... and it's a really hard thing to wrestle with because all the crap still happens.

I hope the physical (and spiritual) pain lessens soon!
 
Yes I've been stewing on it forever. What a wonderful thread and so many thoughtful responses. I just read a short book on the subject, very famous, Viktor Frankl, "Mans search for meaning." He was a Jewish doctor who survived Auschwitz. I don't think it deals with the theological issue of how God could allow such things so much but, it's along those lines. Like how do you go on once you've been through such trauma. How do you think about anything after. Like us in so many ways.

I went to church this morning, my wife and I and our 2 adult handicapped children.

Yes, I've thought about it a lot.

My therapist wrote a book on religious abuse. She was in a convent. She wanted to be a nun. We've had some interesting conversations.

What I think probably won't be very helpful but for me it's peace. The me that I'm concerned about is me the body. The me that God's concerned about is me the soul or the eternal me. That's the rub. It means Gods concerns and mine don't line up. This upsets me because I don't see me the soul or feel it, I see and feel the body and it's needs and it's desire to be comfortable and continue.

But it won't continue and that's so much more real at 60 than it was at 20. It's old and soon it'll be what it's made from. Dust thou art.

So I'm good with that. I don't love it. I always looked at myself like a Jonah Christian because God used Jonah for something and Jonah wasn't really happy about it. I don't think it's good to admit that, really I should be grateful but, might as well tell the truth. I think of my self as a Christian just not a very good one.

That's another one of those things. Nobody is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Donation drives

2026 Donation Goal

Goal
$1,800.00
Earned
$910.00
This donation drive ends in
0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds
  50.6%

Trending content

Featured content

Back
Top Bottom