T Changed His Mind And I Feel Sad About It

[joeylittle]

I guess I also wanted him to come in because we were finished with our outing but he still had a few minutes before he had to leave, and I wanted to "milk it"... maybe that's selfish...

I wouldn't say selfish - but I would say

1) good for you for recognizing that
2) the shift in boundaries initiated by your T (re: holding) is probably a two-way street, and it would be good if you constructed a more thorough awareness for yourself about how those boundaries should work.

I think you were testing him, in a sort of way - trying to figure out what levels of intimacy you still have access to. Now, I think he did not do a good job responding. I'm not sure he knows where the new boundaries are, either. It's very possible he did feel uncomfortable when you suggested it, but realized afterwards that it was not a problem. On your side, you were doing a different version of 'holding' (IMO), by moving him into your space because you had a few more minutes of time.

I think we all test our therapists, in different ways; it's not that unusual. In this case, I think you could inadvertently do yourself some damage if the boundary lines aren't thoroughly discussed, and maintained. But - I'm also being a little cart-before-the-horse, there. The conversation you have next with your T about these things will shed a lot of light.

(I'm going through something similar but opposite with my therapist at the moment; I'm grateful for you sharing your issue, it's helping me think through mine as well)

 

[Deleted member 40384]

I wouldn't say selfish - but I would say

1) good for you for recognizing that
2) the shift in bound...

I do think I was testing him, though at the time it wasn't done consciously... I think that's spot-on. I'm glad you're finding insights for your situation with your T.

I am nervous about my next session because I want to talk about things and feel like I'm getting somewhere - since T has been kind of reluctant to keep the conversation going. I wonder what kinds of questions I can ask, to open up discussion so that we can both express our feelings and get some clarification? I'm hesitant to talk about things further, even though I want to, because I'm afraid that T is going to restrict boundaries once again and I'll be feeling even more of a loss. I don't want things to err on the more "cold and clinical" side - I feel better and like I can thrive in life when I feel his warmth and love. When things feel "colder" and more restricted, I feel rejected and isolated, and I feel less confident in my ability to connect and heal in life.

 

[joeylittle]

I'm hesitant to talk about things further, even though I want to, because I'm afraid that T is going to restrict boundaries once again and I'll be feeling even more of a loss. I don't want things to err on the more "cold and clinical" side - I feel better and like I can thrive in life when I feel his warmth and love. When things feel "colder" and more restricted, I feel rejected and isolated, and I feel less confident in my ability to connect and heal in life.

I think this bit I quoted might be what the convo needs to start with.

He may challenge your assumption that you need to feel his warmth and love to thrive. Or, the way that warmth is expressed may need to be re-worked. Or, something else might happen...hard to know. But I think trying to protect the relationship you have now by avoiding the topic will not actually get you what you need. You'll spend more time wondering whether he's going to change the rules or not. My opinion, but stable ground is what you need, even if it's got new boundaries.

But, honestly, that's just my opinion. I could be off-base. It's usually a red flag for myself, when I notice that I'm making choices in order to either take care of my therapist, or trying to make sure he doesn't decide I'm too difficult or something.

 

[Suzetig]

I agree with @joeylittle, it sounds like you need firm footing so it's important to talk to your T about your sense and feeling around what's happened.

I know a bit of how you're feeling about being held - I'm doing a lot of work around childhood trauma just now at a really deep level and part of me feels a longing to be held like a child. Not something my husband can give me and not something my T can give me either - it's a longing that may just need to go unmet. I'm trusting that working through the trauma will help that feeling to lessen but at times it's incredibly hard. But the whole thing is hard...

 

[Deleted member 40384]

I agree with @joeylittle, it sounds like you need firm footing so it's important to...

It's such a difficult feeling... having such a universal and innate need go unmet, and trying to heal the damage in other ways... it gives me hope that the feeling will lessen as I work through the trauma, without T physically holding me. I have to remind myself that this is a process, and things could feel very differently in a few months, or years. I've been doing a lot of grieving for the past year or so, and it feels like it's reaching a peak. It might plateau at the peak for a while, who knows. But I have to give it space and time.

I like to think of my T as holding space for my experience and feelings. His patience with me over the years has been consistent, despite his inconsistencies in other areas. It's hard, though, because the physical touch is so tactile and concrete, so it feels more real to me.

 

[kilted]

I've found that doing bodywork has helped a lot. This separates the talk therapist from the body therapist. I did have one therapist who did both in the session (She was a Reichian).

Doing both in parallel allowed me to explore each with therapists who were comfortable and experienced in their sphere. This reduced my anxiety and it also helped that the bodywork therapists understood and were able to work with my high levels of anxiety and conflicted emotions around physical contact.

Doing straight up bodywork means that when touch arises in a non-bodywork setting, I feel much more comfortable with it and can react appropriately.

I understand the re-parenting part of the process,, but from your comments I'd say that if you explored body orientated processes you might find you would be able to sense when the other person (in this case your talk therapist) was uncomfortable with the situation.

I wonder if there was something deeper going on..... you were entering a re-parenting process with a "parent figure" who was uncomfortable with the process of parenting. That would indicate some form of over-riding of boundaries on both your part ( moving into vulnerability and closeness while not sensing/admitting the other person was uncomfortable) and the therapists side (not voicing discomfort about the situation).

 

[Deleted member 40384]

I've found that doing bodywork has helped a lot. This separates the talk therapist from the body therapi...

How do you go about finding a bodywork therapist? I've done some other "body" related stuff like acupuncture.

Thanks for your insight, it's made me think more about the symbolic nature of the situation. I could sense in my body that T was uncomfortable with it, but I asked him after every session if he was uncomfortable, and he said no. So at those times I took his word for it, and just ignored my own sense of it. I knew he'd never done anything like that with other clients, and he was thanking me for being patient with him as he navigated "new territory". So I soaked up what I could get from the experience despite it feeling a little awkward. I think the situation created a similar dynamic to when I could feel that my mom was uncomfortable hugging me, and then the hugs stopped. She was uncomfortable expressing her love (I very rarely heard the words "I love you", or "I care about you", or other validating/loving things). I attached to T like a mother figure, felt desperate for his nurturance, he got uncomfortable with the holding and then soon after it stopped all together. He's said that he's better at problem-solving/rational thinking than he is at validation/nurturing-type verbal support - I now know that it's helpful for me to ask directly, "I need validation more than problem-solving right now", but that deprived inner-child part is longing for his warmth and love, and for him to automatically know how to meet my need.

 

[Eagle3]

My therapist does both bodywork and talk therapy with me. There was one time he held me for 20 minutes during a session and it really did help, but I've been too scared to ask for that again. The bodywork seems to take the edge off of needing touch pretty well. He even asked about that a few sessions ago, and I was able to tell him that table work fulfilled the need for safe touch without being claustrophobic or sensorily overwhelming.

Sasha, I understand what you mean about needing nurturing from your T. Mine is also a problem solver, not so much into the nurturing stuff, and he often flat-out asks me what I need from him when I start crying in session (which is rare). I never know what to tell him, and can't bring myself to ask for more touch than I get already, so I guess I'm short-changing myself in therapy. I also wish he would just offer precisely what I need without my having to ask for or articulate what I need, but I know part of the therapeutic process is learning to be able to say, "I need this".

It really sucks when a T has to backpedal on boundaries, but its necessary for the therapeutic process. Hope you two can get things settled acceptably.

 

[kilted]

I found the nurturing side came from the bodywork therapists. They were better at handling the emotion that arose and it felt more natural in that situation. It would feel weird for me to do the crying/hugging thing with my talk therapist, but it feels OK with the body ones, they seem to read my body and know what to do.

I was lucky in finding a good body therapist almost by chance. One thing that seemed to make a difference is that she'd "been through fire" in her own life.... but I only found this out later. There was a feeling of being accepted in a holistic way, and she was also able to handle my dissociation and emotional flashbacks. It took a long time to build trust, and she had a good range of techniques so I didn't have to change practitioner as I moved into deeper stuff. Mixing in aromatherapy was a surprise.... but logical because of the neural connections between smell and the amygdalic/hippocampal centres of the brain.... glad I didn't do that early on!

It's a bit like finding a good talk therapist.... there's no formula, and it's all about gut feeling. It's also worth trying a few different things. I began with really simple stuff like Reiki, which involved no touch..... even that produced strong flashbacks. Even though I had the responses I trusted the therapist enough to model being a client to some of her trainees in order to demonstrate what trauma can look like and how to handle it. I still remember the students surprise and anxiety because they hadn't seen it before.

 

[Friday]

Bear with me.
(Because the next line will probably piss you off if you don't keep reading).

One thing to keep in mind is that not getting what we want is a part of life.

As opposed to JUST a part of abuse.

Learning that we can not get what we want NOT because of being neglected, or abused, or abandoned, or as punishment, or because we don't deserve it, or as a herald of reeeeeeally bad times about to start... But because of whole different/ good/ healthy reasons? (As well as no reason, but in this case, there's clear reasoning)... In my experience helps to start separating the f*cked up rules of abuse from ruling over every aspect of life.

Sometimes we don't get what we want...
- From a really awesome person (not just abusers)
- Who still thinks we're awesome (they're not saying no because we suck)
- Who isn't going to manipulate us & punish us (they aren't withholding)
- Who is still going to be there
- et cetera

It's just kind of the tip of the iceberg in the vast series of good lessons that can come from not getting what we want, but I want to highlight one more:

Good parents? Spend years teaching their kids both these boundaries AND coping mechanisms for the feelings that go along with them. (To oversimplify a smidge) : What's a screaming bereft tantrum at 2? Is a disappointment at 3. Is Darn! Sigh. Okay! :D at 4. // Speaking as a parent these aren't lessons that are one and done, but are thousands of times, generally coming in waves, that get retaught in many different ways, in countless situations - both great and small, over the years (authoritarian as a toddler, authoritative as a grade schooler, as a mentor as a highschooler).

So if you're looking at the 'reparenting' side? Those -and others- would be amazing lessons /a real shame to miss out on.

 

[Deleted member 40384]

That's a really good point, and I didn't take offense at all. I'm okay with not getting what I want, even though it can sometimes be difficult. I think, though, that with this situation, it's a little different than with other things. At least that's how it feels for me. In the situation with T, I didn't get what I wanted (in the present), which reflected a situation in which I didn't get what I needed in childhood (in the past tense). So the need went unmet, and the pain of the need was reinforced - I still want that need to be met, but the part of the lesson is accepting that he can't meet the need, and that it's time to get creative to find other ways to heal. I think that part of the acceptance is also acknowledging that the need is complex, and if I'm rushing to try to meet it, I'll be disappointed. I was kind of holding onto the idea that since T wouldn't hold me anymore, that need would forever go unmet and there would always be a hole in my soul... which probably isn't the case.