Therapist Clueless About Sociopaths

[Dana1010]

Anyway, it's just strange to me that so much weight is being placed on the name of "psychopath" and so little weight is placed on having known your perpetrator in advance

I appreciate some of the points here. However, I didn't know the perpetrator anymore than someone who's seen Edward Scissorhands knows Johnny Depp. The later is a real person. The former is a role with a costume and script.

 

[joeylittle]

I didn't know the perpetrator anymore than someone who's seen Edward Scissorhands knows Johnny Depp.

That's a good analogy, and I understand the point. I think by "know", I'm actually trying to say "was in proximity to for some time prior". But I take what you mean very much to heart.

 

[greenleaf]

Anyway, it's just strange to me that so much weight is being placed on the name of "psychopath" and so little weight is placed on having known your perpetrator in advance - which is what everyone talking about needing to identify and understand psychopaths is talking about.

I suspect that "knowing in advance" -- being in proximity for some time prior -- did indeed affect how this impacted Dana, and she'd probably agree strongly. However, she just didn't choose to focus on that here.

It's such a huge thing and common to so many of our experiences that people probably assume this is a given large influence. The impact of this factor on childhood trauma survivors was a pretty early theoretical topic and got written about extensively in early books for survivors, like back in the 1980s and likely by others well before, historically.

 

[Pencil]

Yes, I'd known my sociopath in advance - for decades, PLUS she was my primary caregiver. As a result life was one hell of a confusing place. I forgave her when she asked me for forgiveness (she asked only once, after I'd refused contact for 3 years). The reason I did was that I was absolutely thrown by it, for the words 'please', 'thank you' and 'sorry' are NOT in her vocabulary. So, not realizing at that point that she is a classic sociopath, I thought she had come to some insight, and meant it. So I forgave her, and let her back into my life, which was an enormous mistake for she must have spent those three years concocting elaborate 'revenge' fantasies. Revenge for what? For me drawing boundaries for her. For me saying 'no' to her. For me persisting with the ridiculous notion that I am an autonomous adult and then going as far as insisting on being treated as one. For me curbing her sense of entitlement. All of these things are are gross violations and punishable - according to her. In short, I refused to be her victim, and she had one aim in life - showing me I that I had one function in life, which is to be her victim. She's a cat, and I am HER mouse. And now that I'm fighting back she tries to get custody of my daughter. Why? She can think of no better torture for me - knowing that she has custody of my daughter, doing the same things to my daughter who will be a fresh, helpless victim.

For seven years I felt SO alone, for nobody could see what was happening. But that has changed: In my sister's latest application she asked for the designated social worker to contact the psychologist I saw between the ages 19 - 23. This was the dumbest move EVER!! The social worker did just that and heard directly from the psychologist in what a state I was when I started seeing her, and why. As a result this psychologist is back in my life, and more involved than she has ever been, and is immensely supportive. She phones me after appointments with the attorney and we speak for more than an hour, she texts me before court sessions, she emails me with analyses of the situation, etc etc. Furthermore, the social worker is totally on my side and spends time and energy putting a report together to end this once and for all - in her report she makes a case for the court granting me a protection order. (There are two cases that will be heard together: Her application for custody of my daughter, and my application for a protection order against her.) In other words, the social worker does not limit herself to a report to show that my daughter is not a child 'in need of protection and care' (as described in law) with regards to me, but that my child is in fact in need of protection AGAINST MY SISTER. This was only made possible by the insight by the psychologist that my sister IS INDEED A SOCIOPATH. And here I have a retired psychologist, whom Ive known for 30 years, who saved my life, who is the one person who has never betrayed or disappointed me, who has 40 years' clinical experience, who tells me: 'Your sister is a sociopath and narcissistic to boot, she will lie to your face, she will ..... '

Regarding the argument that 'not all sociopaths' are 'bad'. Although I think they are, for if they weren't they would probably be schizoid, or Aspergers or something else, for the main characteristic of sociopaths being lack of conscience etc etc etc, we can look at the issue differently, with the help of a Venn diagram:

Big circle: sociopaths. little circle inside big circle: 'bad' sociopaths.

Now: we've been trying very hard to compare notes on our experiences with bad sociopaths. We are not here trying to determine how small or how big the little circle should be and where the lines should be drawn. We are not trying to change the classification system used in the DSM. We fully acknowledge that sociopaths differ in anything from hair color to crimes committed. We fully acknowledge the differences. But let us not forget that the very DSM itself is based on classification derived from similarities and differences, as is ALL cognition. And we are here looking for commonalities. SO, what we are trying very hard to talk to talk about is simply that tiny section between x number of overlapping circles within larger circles, the section titled: 'Experiences of victims of clearly identifiable sociopathic behaviour'. Perhaps we should spend time on refining the title of that tiny section and then everybody who wants to talk about things that don't fall strictly inside that tiny section are welcome to start a new tread.

 

[Pencil]

I must say that while a sociopath can be charming etc, when they feel you have shattered their veneer that is when they 'switch' and are (in my experience and which research supports) very dangerous. I just wonder whether you have 'ticked them off' so much so that they have ever targeted you or if you have avoided this 'piece' of them because you know how to keep the peace with them at all times. This may be why your experience with a sociopath or any type of 'path for that matter is not in line with the damage the OP has asked for strategies with in this posting.

Yes, and as for @FridayJones finding them enervating:
I think one of the reasons (there are many) I tried so hard to have a relationship with my sister is that she can rise to the occasion like few can. She is an excellent hostess, she can be incredibly charming, helpful, empathic (this word needs an explanation which I'll get to later) and so on. I miss certain attributes. I was hoodwinked for a long time by her relationships with others. One example is E, a young lost girl who found herself in my sister's orbit about 15 years ago. E became K's 'daughter'. I always found it confusing that they could have such a close relationship which was obviously highly beneficial for E, while our relationship had this life / death quality. Obviously I thought I was guilty of something. And I noticed E's extremely negative attitude towards me. So, while E also experienced K as everything enervating and wonderful, and was very sympathetic towards K, believing K to be my victim, K was plotting and doing things E knew nothing about. I recently found out that the relationship blew up. Perhaps now, after 15 years, E has a slightly better idea of who K is. Sociopaths are very good at dr Jekyll / Mr Hyde lives. If you know the one side, don't make the mistake of thinking you know the whole person. They are Masters of deception. All of them? How would I know, I haven't met every single one in the world. I'm talking about those in that little section in the Venn diagram; those who have earned their membership to that little collection due to their behavior.

 

[Ronin]

@Pencil, that with 'if you know one side, don't assume it's whole' is pretty much applicable to people in general, period. Yet it never comes up in discussions about neurotypical people. It always comes up when certain diagnoses (and the wildly misinterpreted ones) are concerned.

Your other lines ('if it's not 'path then that's aspie or schizoid') pretty much give the impression you're just looking for someone Other that'd be easy to blame and are fine throwing people under the bus. I'm not really okay with that for so many reasons so just yeah. Bowing out.

Just please, stay out of talking to neurodivergent people altogether. The kind of assumptions you're having about different spectrums of disorders that have nothing to do with one another? That kind of assumptions is hurtful to way many people at best, and used to justify some effing nasty actions toward harmless people whose sole 'crime' is their brain processes reality in specific ways, daily.

 

[shimmerz]

perpetrator can really distract from the healing process

This is very true. My two perps distract me by stalking me, not allowing me to have an 'address'. To constantly be on the run. The father of my children distracts me by using my children as his 'cult', and I expect my new grandchildren as well with time. He no longer has to victimize me, my children do that instead and this has become now 'normal' for them. I am sick inside for what has happened to my children. What will quite possibly be for my grandchildren. The list goes on - but in the meanwhile I sit on the edge of sanity and insanity depending on when these two (and my children by proxy) decide to 'play' with me. I absolutely cannot get well unless this stops.

I thought at one time I could bend and adapt, kill it with kindness. Now that I have realized the nature of what I am working with here (finally), I know that the only thing that will bring me fully back into sanity is absolutely no contact. With any of them. My heart is shattered but I must stay away from them all. The repercussions involved for my even attempting to be out of his reach I shudder to think about.

one can become obsessed with the perpetrator

Because the perpetrator is obsessed with his target. Why? Because they KNOW that that will make you obsessed about them. That is what they want.

So I forgave her, and let her back into my life, which was an enormous mistake

All part of the bigger plan. These people only make themselves vulnerable so they can get the better of you in the end.

All of these things need to be learned in therapy. Expert guidance by someone who knows.

@Pencil I thrilled with the progress you have made and your story of the psychiatrist just strengthens the OP's opinion that therapists must know dynamics in order to truly help us. Any dynamics. This is just one of them. Therapists should know about the dynamics of child abuse, rapist/rape victim, etc etc etc.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@Pencil,
Why are you SO insistent on playing internet police? If you don't like what someone has to say, you invalidate them. So not cool.

 

[Pencil]

Why are you SO insistent on playing internet police? If you don't like what someone has to say, you invalidate them. So not cool.

OMG, this is funny! Erm.

 

[Pencil]

'if you know one side, don't assume it's whole' is pretty much applicable to people in general, period.

Indeed. Totally. We all have a public persona. If you see me in front of a classroom (lecture hall, really), you'd never imagine lots of things about me, but those things don't include stalking, harassing, harming, destroying, victimising, and so on and so forth. It all depends on how integrated our public and private lives are, or how disconnected they are, or how much the public persona hides the real, public lives. 'Mask of sanity'. Do some reading. There are experts out there who are highly respected in their fields. Argue with them. Not with me.

This is very true. My two perps distract me by stalking me, not allowing me to have an 'address'..... The repercussions involved for my even attempting to be out of his reach I shudder to think about.

All I can say to your whole post is Yes Yes Yes Yes. I have considered removing myself totally, marrying someone for a quick change of surname, changing our names, moving to another continent. Literally. I am still considering it.

 

[shimmerz]

I have considered removing myself totally, marrying someone for a quick change of surname, changing our names, moving to another continent. Literally. I am still considering it.

I will let you know how it goes for me. Seriously looking at changing my name as well.

Hard not to be distracted by all of this? Yep. I am so tired of not being able to think properly because of all of this. I am going to normalize regardless of what it takes. Name change, sex change, blonde to green hair, plastic surgery or gun (as I learn I feel like the latter option is farther away thank god) - whatever it takes. Seriously after 20+ years of this shiest I will do anything to get out. And whatever therapy it takes to stop being attracted to these sick and twisted idiots.

 

[greenleaf]

Why are you SO insistent on playing internet police? If you don't like what someone has to say, you invalidate them. So not cool.

Do some reading. There are experts out there who are highly respected in their fields. Argue with them. Not with me.

I'm glad that survivors of abuse by various types of perpetrators now have more things to read about those types of pathologies. We can read them in our own homes and help our lives with the knowledge... we are not absolutely dependent upon agreement of whatever community we're in for validation that the abuser is incredibly sick, following a pattern... and we can get information from the knowledge base about what tactics might work best with that type of pathology.

We typically are *not* in positions of power over the abuser, so the posts that seem to imply we are destroying the lives of our abusers by thinking they are psychopaths or whatever, are very odd... We often cannot get any sort of professional diagnosis of the perpetrator, as they won't cooperate! A real psychopath would be highly unlikely to seek professional help! That just follows logically from the definition of that condition.

I am adding in lots of "highly likely" sorts of language as absolutes seem to upset some people. While it's true that in some situations, the "highly likely" would lead to different action on the part of members of a jury sitting on a comfy bench than "definitely", no one holds people in a dark alley to that standard if someone with crazed eyes is pointing a gun at them...

In reality, survivors often have little backup; our society gives many abusers the benefit of so many doubts that it gets ridiculous. I feel deeply for all of you others having to deal with this bleakness (and I'm not needing to be thinking about my brother today at all, thank goodness.)