Navigating unwanted attention in public spaces

[BuildingSelf24]

You've acknowledged their hello and carried on, so I don't think that's rude at all.



Maybe I'm barking up the completely wrong tree here; how do you know they are not simply saying hi? Sure, some might be pushing their luck, but equally others may genuinely just be saying hello in passing. Or is there more context that I'm missing. I'm just wondering if history is meaning you're hyper vigilant to associating general greetings from men with the risk of people then wanting more?

Different circumstances entirely but I get alot of unwanted attention due to my wheelchair. (I am physically week and vulnerable, not a great position for a trauma survivor to be in, naturally defensive before you even begin) I got to a point that even someone saying hello I was prickling and ready for whatever insult/ smart comment/ intrusive medical question ('bloody hell your young to be in that thing, what happened?!' seems to be the favourite of anyone over the age of 65) that it took me a long, long time to realise some people were just, actually, smiling and saying hello, human to human.

Reiterating that this may be completely not what's happening here but thought it might be worth throwing it into the ring

I can usually tell when they are being polite and neighborly. It’s a different look and act. People wanting to be friendly don’t scream at you from their moving vehicles or ogle you with “predator eyes” as I like to call them.

I’m more friendly and I’ll smile more when I sense it’s just someone being kind but I still tend to keep it brief since I’m usually on my way somewhere and can’t stop to chat too long. But I get what you’re saying. There have been times when I get scared by someone saying hi but they were just trying to be nice. It happened mostly when I was underage though.

 

[Ecdysis]

How old are you @BuildingSelf24 ?

I ask, because for me that unwanted attention started around 12 too. Cat calls on the street, men learing at me... I felt like I was a piece of meat on a meat market on display for anyone to judge/ look at/ talk to/ talk about. (I haaated it, because of course, at 12, the last thing I was thinking about was sex and grown men being sexually inappropriate towards a kid that wasn't even a teen yet (puke puke puke))

I hated it even when I was older. The constant being objectified. It was relentless.

Like @arfie I found it magically went away in my mid 40s. Suddenly it was like I had a cloak of "invisibility" over me. I was really surprised at first, but then realised that "signs of ageing" had made me fall out of the category of being "prey" and "fair game" to men who are out hunting for a piece of meat, so to speak...

I was soooo relieved! For the first time in my life, I feel like my body is MINE and nobody elses. I can move through public spaces simply as a HUMAN and not as a "female piece of meat".

(I have to say, it's had the mild inconvenience that I'm also now not considered "attractive" in the way that has nice-ish men doing things like holding a door open, being helpful/ polite, helping you change a tire/ whatever... I've also fallen out of that category of "young attractive woman that men want to impress by being nice". But honestly, for me that's a small price to pay for finally feeling free in my own body and no longer like an "object" that others feel they have the right to treat however they want.)

 

[arfie]

Suddenly it was like I had a cloak of "invisibility" over me.

as the fifth of eleven siblings, i felt invisible until puberty hit. i believed my invisibility was a superpower and used it as such. i made certain i was nowhere to be found when my covert operations were discovered.

regaining my cloak of invisibility felt like the best gift of my life. this time around i had my own bank accounts and car keys. if you can't see me, you can't stop me. when you least expect it, expect it. yes, dearie, jump straight ahead in my web. underestimate me at your own risk.

 

[BuildingSelf24]

@arfie @Ecdysis

That sounds nice, knowing that it will end eventually. I just wish society’s view of sex and relationships would change. Then women would less to deal with and fear and maybe older women would be treated with more respect instead of being totally invisible.

 

[Weemie]

Sometimes I can muster this like the time a guy yelled at me but other times I cannot like the times I was followed or touched.

I used to be the exact opposite. I would actually engage with these people and hold full f*cking conversations with them where they were lunatics and I was like oh yeah mm hm that's so valid and interesting you were a lobster fisherman????? wowwww.

It's a fawn response which is common to people who have a history of childhood abuse. My mom would get mad at me because she couldn't understand why I would entertain this shit. I was trained from a young age to appease people, men in particular, sexually aggressive men in particular.

Now my city has a huge homelessness problem because of our failed shitty society that abandons kids and doesn't offer assistance to people and prefers to leave them in gangland and poverty. So after enduring harassment every single day for like a year I have learned to stop giving a shit.

Predators rely on people, especially young women (which they view me as even though I am a transgender man) not speaking up for fear of being "rude" and so capitalize on that to create an atmosphere where you will permit them to harass you.

Or is there more context that I'm missing.

There undoubtedly is. A person saying hi in passing will pass. A person harassing you will physically stop in front of you, literally blocking you, and start going on and on. When you ignore them they keep pushing and keep talking. Some will straight up make sexually objectifying remarks. Others will make cat calls from a distance which creates a hostile environment while you have to continue on your way, especially if there is a group of them.

In my other post I gave some examples of the shit people say to me while standing in front of me refusing to leave when I show disinterest. One offered me drugs and alcohol in public. Another stood in front of me at the grocery store and actually attempted to take my phone out of my hands. He was all, I'm just asking a question! Read the room, guy. The answer was obviously "f*ck off."

At the end of the day I am now rude because these people pretend not to understand you when you try and politely disengage. The thing is, they do understand. And they know they can keep bothering you because you feel too awkward to just push past them.

The more you endure this, which unfortunately you will, the easier it will become to just openly say f*ck off. Maybe it is rude, but I am perfectly fine with being rude to people who refuse to exit my space when asked politely. My policy is to give one chance. I will ignore them (giving them an opportunity to walk away) or verbally say no/not interested/please leave. Then I will try and exit the situation. If they persist or follow me, then I become hostile/aggressive.

 

[arfie]

I just wish society’s view of sex and relationships would change.

"society" covers a great many individuals. waaaaaay more than i will ever have the time or inclination to talk to, much less get to know on such an intimate level. i get further keeping it personal. most important, how do **i** view sex and relationships. in my moments of self-confidence, what the bimbo and her next ex across the room think is thoroughly irrelevant. next important, am i reading the eye-contact in front of me or the latest screams into the virtual void?

 

[Survivor3]

People screaming at you from their cars or being predatorial with you can just be ignored. You could tell them to "f*ck off" but that starts further engagement with them so ignoring is probably best. If your ever scared you could always find some females(or just older people that look more normal and stable) and say "I'm being harassed, do you mind if I hang here with you for a few minutes until they go"?

 

[BuildingSelf24]

"society" covers a great many individuals. waaaaaay more than i will ever have the time or inclination to talk to, much less get to know on such an intimate level. i get further keeping it personal. most important, how do **i** view sex and relationships. in my moments of self-confidence, what the bimbo and her next ex across the room think is thoroughly irrelevant. next important, am i reading the eye-contact in front of me or the latest screams into the virtual void?

Yea. I just think it would be easier if weird messaging around sex and relationships and women’s bodies wasn’t so pervasive. But it’s probably not a societal problem and just a segment of humanity that just happens to be loud and aggressive, go figures. That was a generalization on my part.

 

[BuildingSelf24]

I used to be the exact opposite. I would actually engage with these people and hold full f*cking conversations with them where they were lunatics and I was like oh yeah mm hm that's so valid and interesting you were a lobster fisherman????? wowwww.

It's a fawn response which is common to people who have a history of childhood abuse. My mom would get mad at me because she couldn't understand why I would entertain this shit. I was trained from a young age to appease people, men in particular, sexually aggressive men in particular.

Now my city has a huge homelessness problem because of our failed shitty society that abandons kids and doesn't offer assistance to people and prefers to leave them in gangland and poverty. So after enduring harassment every single day for like a year I have learned to stop giving a shit.

Predators rely on people, especially young women (which they view me as even though I am a transgender man) not speaking up for fear of being "rude" and so capitalize on that to create an atmosphere where you will permit them to harass you.



There undoubtedly is. A person saying hi in passing will pass. A person harassing you will physically stop in front of you, literally blocking you, and start going on and on. When you ignore them they keep pushing and keep talking. Some will straight up make sexually objectifying remarks. Others will make cat calls from a distance which creates a hostile environment while you have to continue on your way, especially if there is a group of them.

In my other post I gave some examples of the shit people say to me while standing in front of me refusing to leave when I show disinterest. One offered me drugs and alcohol in public. Another stood in front of me at the grocery store and actually attempted to take my phone out of my hands. He was all, I'm just asking a question! Read the room, guy. The answer was obviously "f*ck off."

At the end of the day I am now rude because these people pretend not to understand you when you try and politely disengage. The thing is, they do understand. And they know they can keep bothering you because you feel too awkward to just push past them.

The more you endure this, which unfortunately you will, the easier it will become to just openly say f*ck off. Maybe it is rude, but I am perfectly fine with being rude to people who refuse to exit my space when asked politely. My policy is to give one chance. I will ignore them (giving them an opportunity to walk away) or verbally say no/not interested/please leave. Then I will try and exit the situation. If they persist or follow me, then I become hostile/aggressive.

So true. It’s definitely a learned trait from childhood and it’s a trait the women in my family have. I’ve seen it. And that fawn response has definitely made me stick around and even take sexual assault out of fear of violence. It’s something I’m working on for sure.

 

[BuildingSelf24]

People screaming at you from their cars or being predatorial with you can just be ignored. You could tell them to "f*ck off" but that starts further engagement with them so ignoring is probably best. If your ever scared you could always find some females(or just older people that look more normal and stable) and say "I'm being harassed, do you mind if I hang here with you for a few minutes until they go"?

You made me realize something. A lot of the time I’m alone when they come up to me. I tend to prefer the side streets since they are empty but that could be emboldening the people. I also tend to wear headphones since I like listening to music or podcasts when I’m walking but that definitely makes me pay more attention to the people than I probably should.

 

[Rose White]

But it’s probably not a societal problem and just a segment of humanity

I think it is a societal problem due to how people are conditioned based on their sex. It’s also a personal problem when it happens to you. Being old enough to be ignored as “sexually dried up” is a huge relief for some women and a huge problem for some women.

 

[arfie]

Yea. I just think it would be easier if weird messaging around sex and relationships and women’s bodies wasn’t so pervasive.

perhaps, but changing billions of people sounds like far more work than i care to do. in my estimation, it is far easier to bypass the chatter of the multitudes and listen for quiet voice of reason. avoiding mainstream social media removes allot of that mind pollution, all by itself.

everybody has a right to their own priorities and beliefs. staying true to my own priorities and beliefs is my only goal. respecting others rights to do the same lets me walk away from the stereotype peddlers without comment. whatever floats your boat, cupcake.