No, I Did Not Violate Your Boundaries

[Abstract]

it is pretty damn arrogant of a therapist to think that they know better than the patient what they need.

FON,
It is extremely arrogant. I get so confused at times because there are definitely things that I don't know and that a T or others needs to bring up for me. Like T's telling me that experiences from the past needed to be dealt with and me being convinced they did not and had not affected me. Only to have them rear up later and prove me wrong. But what I have realised after much agonising about this issue is that it still needs to done with respect and with the person really listening to me. There is a difference between someone putting something before us to consider and someone essentially saying they know much more than we know about how we feel than we do. And saying it again and again and again and again. So I do think it is good when we take time to consider other perspectives and when others ask questions to help us do that but it is not at all healthy when we are not listened to, heard or our feelings and thoughts not respected.

the therapy ceases to be non-directive

Saffy,
I have had many people say that their experience of CBT was very different from mine. Maybe there are therapists that are very empathic and intuitive that can use that to soften and work with the CBT skills better. I don't know. Maybe it is the lack of empathy or intuition regardless of the approach that is the most unhelpful thing. All I know is that despite me learning certain things it was very bad for me in the ways that really counted. Thank God I ended up in psychodynamic by mistake even though that ended badly.

My problem is that I feel uncomfortable around almost everybody. Especially when I don't know them yet.

I find this interferes with me being able to decide what is truly bad for me too. Maybe it comes down to levels of discomfort. And certain definite points that are warning signs of things that are important for you. Maybe your list could include that. What you do not want in T. I am still trying to figure this out for me too.

if someone hurts me - over and over - and treats me badly - over and over - despite my efforts to fix things, then I withdraw: because it would be stupid to continue to invest into the relationship

That means you are healthy and your self preservation instincts are working which is really good. :tup:

The thing is, this point where she doesn't understand me, I've tried to explain it to her so many times, but she still does not get it.

Why would you want to discuss the same thing over again when you have repeatedly tried and been unsuccessful. Well done to you. I never had the ability you have. I just kept going back as I would blame myself. My last mishap in T I continued having the same conversation for 8 months.

It sounds like you have tried all you can to make this work. My concentration couldn't stick and as a result I haven't read all your first posts about what happened between you but I did this last one and I don't like her use of "like adults". It sounds subtly shaming.

What is your situation if you leave?

What kinds of lures did you use?

LOL.

 

[mamachick]

Often the things that are the hardest to address are the things that need the most attention. :( I know that from my own experience and from both sides of the fence.

I cant say that I clearly know what your boundary is, or how you and your therapist have discussed this in the past and come to the agreement that it is off limits.

What I see as most concerning is that if your therapist thinks that something needs addressed, that she would agree to accept this as your "boundary" and her agreeing to neglect the topic. Regardless of the methods she is using during therapy, a holistic approach is necessary. Using different approaches is necessary for different issues that arise.

I am in US, but here, if a client would state that a particular issue is off limits, and the therapist saw the issue as a major factor in recovery, the therapist could be sued for malpractice for agreeing to neglect that issue. Again, I do not know your specifics and am speaking in somewhat general terms.

I also know how difficult trust can be to build and how difficult some topics are to discuss.

If I went to my primary care doctor and he/she saw clear signs of a physical condition but I said, "I dont want to talk about it, I just want my meds refilled and lab work", that dr would likely first try to persuade me, explain the importance, etc, but if I continued to refuse, my dr would tell me to find a new doctor. To look the other way is often malpractice, incompetence, neglect, etc.

I can only speak for rules that counselors, social workers, therapists in US work under-they all have code of ethics that are very similiar. Most clients are not cash pay either, so they have to answer to insurance company and abide by treatment plan. If an issue is not addressed-its a big violation. Basically for all, the #1 is Cause NO Harm, #2 is to do good. So unless the issue would cause such distress that somoene might be seriously injured, then they would need to address. If someone would be seriously injured, that is an entire other issue and still would need to be addressed in another way-intense, hospitalization, etc.

Hypothetically, say you have a patient that binges and purges, and is down to 77 pounds, but they do not want to talk about it. They want to solve relationship issues, depression, anxiety, everything else. What should the therapist do as they watch their patient move closer to death?

Carl Rogers therapy was often referred to as "paid friend", assuming its a healthy friend. Basically, that is not acceptable with insurance companies-and should not be.

There is a lot of empathy here, many good comments, and a lot of knowledge about therapies. Im reading a little late and please tell me if I have missed something. It sounds like some of her skills are lacking, but most concerning is agreeing to avoid something distressing indefinately.

 

[freakofnurture]

So I do think it is good when we take time to consider other perspectives and when others ask questions to help us do that but it is not at all healthy when we are not listened to, heard or our feelings and thoughts not respected.

Especially when you've heard all the other perspectives a thousand times before, have considered them again and again, and decided, again and again, after much deliberation, that they aren't right for you, but every new person offering that old old perspectives wants some kind of proof and explanation for why you think the perspective isn't right for you, and then it takes hours and hours to convince them, and there comes this moment when all that you are left with is to cry and yell that people just m*therf*cking goddamn BELIEVE you when you say "Yes, I thought about this, I tried it, yes, dozens of times, yes, also with this and that and the other variation, yes, over a long period of time, and it f*cking did f*cking not f*cking WORK!"

This is how each of my in-patient stays ended. Me yelling and sobbing that I can not go through another group session. And I seriously had to argue my case each time, even though all the Ts of the ward had seen me slowly deteriorate from sitting upright on a chair during group sessions to cowering motionless under a blanket within just a few weeks.

That means you are healthy and your self preservation instincts are working which is really good.

It's a hard learned skill. I spent so much time trying to make doomed relationships work, years and years full of dread, me not wanting to see the other person ever again, but thinking I have to because I feel like it's my job to be the buffer and to compensate for the other person's shortcomings.

I'm so sick of it.

My last mishap in T I continued having the same conversation for 8 months.

The frustration slowly erodes one's will to live, right? It's hell.

It sounds subtly shaming.

She tried to use the sentence "Maybe if you were healthier and less difficult your husband wouldn't smoke so much." to 'motivate me. Luckily my m*ther used to be big on the guilt trips and I'm completely desensitised. It just makes me go 'Are you kidding me?'.

What is your situation if you leave?

I'll be without a T. That's basically it. I've made do without a T before but I don't know if I can at this point in time.

*face palm* My biggest contemporary problem is that I'm still unemployed, but talking about that always was a sure-fire way to get her on The Topic That I Don't Want To Talk About. And when I started our last session talking about the despair I feel over what's basically an age old global rape crisis, she brushed that aside to talk about Nearly But Not Quite The Topic That I Don't Want To Talk About and elegantly segue'd into TTTIDWTTA.

It's all a big heap of bullshit.

It sounds like some of her skills are lacking, but most concerning is agreeing to avoid something distressing indefinately.

I appreciate your concern and for most cases it would be quite appropriate.

The thing is, however, that I spent most of my 6.5 years of therapy working on that one topic. My last four in-patient stays were dedicated solely to it. I've worked like an animal, tried everything, from Behavioural Therapy over Depth Psychology to CBT, Prolonged Exposure and EMDR. I've tried jogging, workout, pills without number, half a million different skillz and coping methods, I've practiced and practiced and practiced and practiced and practiced, and really, all of it either did nothing or made it worse.

I really, seriously, honestly, genuinely have worked the everloving shit out of that topic and it brought me exactly nowhere.

So, I think that I have good reason to want to try something else for a while. Explicitly for a while. Not forever, just for a while. Until I feel like something, anything, has changed due to all the other work I've done in the meantime.

Because if someone came up to me right now and asked me if I have ever tried to practice being in a room with other people, I swear I will grab whatever blunt object is within reach and hit that person until they're nothing but a bloody stain on the floor.

That is the level of frustration that I have reached. And I do not have to take it any more. I just don't.

 

[mamachick]

FON-Im sorry, I did not know all that history, and I know what it is like explaining the same thing over-and my anger escalating when others do not understand. If this was in your post and I missed it, I am very sorry as well. No harm intended. I also think you have every right to try something different.

I think what she said about your husbands smoking was way out of line. Cant imagine how she thought that would be helpful.

I have not worked since I was assaulted by a police officer on duty. It was life changing. It continues to effect my life negatively. I can talk about it, but other than those who witnessed it, Im not convinced that others dont judge and think that I did something to warrant it. I have had to tell the neurosurgeon, orthopedic surgeon, and pain specialist how my rotator cuff got tore. I am defensive from the start, and have left in tears. Its horrible. I think that most people think that police would not do what they did. I live in a small town, I was drug thru my work place with my half naked body exposed, hand cuffed and battered, while the prosecuting attorney could not look me in the eyes, because they scratch each others back and cover for each other, even though we had worked on cases together and he knew it was bullshit and I was beat up. The magistrate even addressed what the cop did in ear shot of me. It has yet to go to court. Last week during a discussion with my 24 yr old, I went nuts, the feeling of wanting to die came over me bad. I wanted to break something. My daughter cried and said she wished the cop would have done it to her and not me because I know how to be there for her,and she does not know what to do for me. That broke my heart.

I am only sharing this because I want you to know that I too, have to keep traveling this journey that is unresolved and no matter how many times I talk about it or what therapy I have done, it has not helped. My daughter said that after that episode, I looked as dead in my eyes as when I ended up in ICU immediately after from overdoses, that my demeanor was as unstable. I think she was right. I just came out of it much sooner.

I think that is all we can do sometimes. We have to have some control of when we take it out and work on it. In the meantime, it can be very self destructive. My shame, blame, anger, fear, hopelessness about humanity keeps me from being employed-no esteem left. My "issue" still controls my life. My therapist holds my feet to the fire a bit. I think that she see's the pending lawsuit as part of my own resolution. Im not sure she is aware that I dont know if I will be able to live in this world if a jury of peers do not discover the truth.

Im sorry that this situation will leave you without a therapist.

 

[mamachick]

I re-read the thread. I kept feeling like I missed something. Then I realized it was my own distortion. My T points out what my distortions are when I cant see them (directive therapy). When I am insightful and draw my own conclusions, she shares what she see's is accurate, may help me identify and clarify feelings and values by asking the right questions (non directive).

Once she told me that my 18 yr old daughter should be able to walk home(only 4 block) from her job at midnight. My daughter was 88 pounds and does not pay attention to surroundings. She basically thought I was over protective for staying up until she called for me to come and drive her home when the restaurant closed. I knew she could not possibly understand-I would never forgive myself if something happened to her. There is truth that I am over protective though. We are both correct. We agree to disagree. I can see my fear may distort my view, yet this is one area that I could not, or would not change. My daughter would tell you that I was over protective, she married someone who would take care of her as soon as she graduated high school. My therapist's feedback is very important to me.

We go to a therapist because they are experts in their field. They have spent years in training. Just as we send our children to school where there are teachers (professionals), doctors for medical treatment, etc. , but when therapy is not productive-who is to responsible? Just as parents want to blame teachers for childrens failures, drs. for not being able to diagnose mystery illness, this thread sounds as though we want to go to therapists and then say they are "violating boundaries" for prodding for information. They are wrong for expecting clients to share thoughts and feelings. Its like asking the school to "babysit" our kids. They are there for education, not day care.

I am sorry for anyone who is not able to trust their therapist. I have had 5 T's in my lifetime, all with different styles, but all very competent. One never said the childhood issues would rear its ugly head at some point, a couple of others insisted issues were rooted in childhood. Some better than others, some better with specific issues. There are times that I have felt so exhausted I have been like.....just tell the answer....your interpretation....Im too tired to figure this out right now. Some give more feedback than others.

It is there job to evaluate. Do addicts say they are addicts or do they deny? It is often evident to everyone else before the addict admits. Therapists are not geinuises, they are trained to listen and see patterns and interpret what we cant see. I have not read where the therapist has said what to do or how to live, only that she expects the patient to speak of thoughts and feelings. It is not unusual that a person who is afraid of the therapist would try to get the upper hand by making accusations that the therapist is violating boundary issues after spending 20 hours working together and failing to develop trust in the T. That IMHO is the adult discussion that needs to take place.

When I hear someone speak of bludgeoning another person for asking what they think to be a stupid question, I consider that to be bullying behavior, yes fearful in their statement, but very offensive none the less.

I think we have to find a good match with a therapist. Sometimes we need a break from therapy and do some self help work, then return as things come up. The therapist did not create our trauma. At the end of the day, they go home to their families and life, we on the other hand, are left with that which we have not resolved.

I am not intending to offend anyone, however, if it does, I am sorry for your interpretation.
Brat

 

[Bilby]

I don't think your T is ever going to accept that she is wrong. Thing is, we are all wrong, at different times. Being able to acknowledge that is seriously important. For a T to fail to acknowledge it, let alone bang on about discussing things like adults - WTF?! To me, that implies that you haven't behaved in an adult-like fashion as far as she's concerned. She's behaving a little like a spoilt brat, but hiding behind her qualification to justify it.

The more I hear, the more I'm glad that you won't be seeing them again as I fear it would just make you feel worse about yourself - she's not exactly the 'validating' sort is she?

I'm sorry (very much so), that this means you don't have a T at all and I really hope that there are some things that you can do on a personal level to get through this time.

(((FON)))

 

[Hashi]

What kinds of lures did you use?

My natural charm, of course. And my chequebook.

Carl Rogers therapy was often referred to as "paid friend", assuming its a healthy friend. Basically, that is not acceptable with insurance companies-and should not be.

I agree that it isn't acceptable for a therapist to be a paid friend. I don't think that's what person-centred therapy is about at all. I could come up with a dismissive phrase for directive therapists, like "elementary school teacher for grownups" but that wouldn't be an accurate representation of directive therapists any more than "paid friend" is for non-directive ones.

A safe, non-judgemental therapeutic space where the client is held in unconditional positive regard is completely different from seeing a friend.

They are just different approaches. A non-directive therapist is still a therapist and still uses their expertise to make assessments which they communicate. There are still goals for the therapy. (Unless they're not a good therapist, which could happen with either approach.)

Hypothetically, say you have a patient that binges and purges, and is down to 77 pounds, but they do not want to talk about it. They want to solve relationship issues, depression, anxiety, everything else. What should the therapist do as they watch their patient move closer to death?

All therapists are responsible for taking further action if they think the patient is a danger to themselves or others. This is no different for non-directive therapists. Intervention at a crisis point is different from general directive/non-directive approaches.

This hypothetical client could still reach this stage while they were seeing a directive therapist - direction doesn't guarantee a positive reaction or outcome. One person may respond better to directive therapy, one might respond better to a non-directive approach, and one might not respond well to either.

I think a more relevant example would be being diagnosed with a chronic medical condition. I could choose whether to treat it with medication only, diet/lifestyle/alternative therapy approaches only, or a mixture of the two. The choice depends on the person and what works best for them. However, there will be some practitioners and others who believe that only one option is valid.

I can't comment much on insurance companies and mental health treatments because I'm in the UK and we don't have the same kind of insurance culture. Similarly for litigation culture - although I have to say that I would have thought your therapist's counsel that it's OK for a young woman to be walking on the street alone at midnight would be actionable if you followed it and anything happened - it's very much against general public safety guidelines that would be given here. I think this is a risk of directive therapy. The therapist is only human, not an oracle, and the client is vulnerable.

I do know that my previous therapist (integrative) also worked in the NHS and was therefore required to use CBT in cases where she personally thought it was not the best approach, simply because of the way CBT can be delivered and reported on against NHS budgets and targets. She found this problematic, and as a result she limited her NHS activity to an area where she thought CBT was appropriate.

Rules and measurement can work both ways - to protect and also to restrict. Especially if the measurement system itself is restrictive and self-limiting.

I do agree that we as clients have a responsibility to participate fully in our own therapy. I think we also have a responsibility to find a therapist/therapy approach which is a good match for us. Discovering what is a good match can take trial and error, though. Which can be painful.

 

[freakofnurture]

They are wrong for expecting clients to share thoughts and feelings.

Of course a T is not wrong for wanting and needing their clinents to do their part of the therapeutic cooperation. But they are wrong for insisting to proceed in a way that they had previously agreed not to.

I am not blaming my ex-T for my lack of progress. I haven't talked about this aspect in this thread yet, but my ex-T and I have an explicit agreement that we are looking for something elusive and hard to identify since the last 10 - yes, *10* - Ts I have worked with, despite my and their best efforts (and total, in-depth, 3D, micro- and macroscopic, x-ray cristallographic, fMRI-imaging-y looks at each and every facet, aspect, cause and effect of That Topic), couldn't help me figure it out as well.

What I am looking for just *has* to be somewhere else. And although my ex-T and I agreed to look somewhere else for a change... she just doesn't want to look somewhere else, breaking our explicit agreement again and again.

I don't think your T is ever going to accept that she is wrong.

I don't know if she's wrong. Maybe she is right and I am in fact doing myself no good.

But even if: she can't *force* me to realise it. And since I am neither a danger to myself nor others, she needs to let me make my own mistakes. She needs to respect my autonomy and my decisions about my own psyche. She needs to accept that she cannot force me, only assist me in finding my very own way.

She could tell me: "If you aren't open for this approach, I don't feel comfortable working with you." but instead she just harps on in a way that I feel and have told her is hurtful to me.

I'm sorry (very much so), that this means you don't have a T at all and I really hope that there are some things that you can do on a personal level to get through this time.

Thank you :) I'm slowly getting over this loss and getting ready to make a concrete plan for how to proceed from here.

My natural charm, of course. And my chequebook.

:D I'm distinctly lacking in charme, but I have insurance. Do you think I have a chance?

A safe, non-judgemental therapeutic space where the client is held in unconditional positive regard is completely different from seeing a friend.

I agree for the most part. I do think though, if the client hurts other people, there has to be a way to express strong critical concern.

I could choose whether to treat it with medication only, diet/lifestyle/alternative therapy approaches only, or a mixture of the two.

And even if a patient has an illness that's terminal if untreated, the doctor can't force the patient to undergo a therapy that they don't want. And if the patient is a minor, they have to make them warden of the state if the p*rents refuse to let them have therapy.

The therapist is only human, not an oracle, and the client is vulnerable.

It feels a bit as if your were lying on the table and instead of just removing your appendix the surgeon decides to give you a free tummy lift while he's in there anyways, without ever having gotten your consent.

 

[Abstract]

I agree that the same issues get addressed in directive and non-directive therapies. They are just delivered in a different package. In non-directive therapy observations are still made; questions still asked; guidance still happens. It's just that it is not done in a way that implies wrongness of the clients thoughts or feelings. The client's thoughts or feelings may well be unhelpful but they always have good reason for being there. For those who struggle to know their internal world or who default to severe self judgement and shame taking delivery of something parcelled in wrongness can disconnect the client more from their internal world and increase their shame and self hatred.

That was definitely the case for me. And because I was that disconnected from my internal states I did not even realise it was happening.

I however don't judge directive therapies as bad as I have seen many people helped by them. They can accomplish things in small amounts of time for those with phobias or anxiety issues. I do admit to wondering how deep the healing goes. Wether it is the equivalent of putting a plaster on the wound and healing that area whilst deeper wounds still fester. I do think that is the case.

We agree to disagree

I am glad you are capable of that. Not everyone is. I certainly wasn't. And as a side comment I do think you are right. Wether you are over protective in general is another issue and I don't have the details but I think you feelings on this are legitimate.

They are wrong for expecting clients to share thoughts and feelings.

Personally that was not at all my take on it. As I said I have not read all but from what has been said here it is not that thoughts and feelings have been discussed but rather that there appears to be an attempt to bulldozer trust and change and in a way that does seem shaming and judgemental.

If I came into treatment and had defensive posture and it was commented on then I would be Ok with that. I would admit to feeling afraid and not being able to trust. If it was then commented on every session after that for 20 sessions and packaged in judgemental language then I would feel attacked, judged and unsafe. And less trusting.

Trusting others would make my life better? Gosh. Why had I never thought of that before! Lets just fix it.

It almost reminded me of gestalt therapy (Fritz Perls). And although I can see the benefit of that therapy too if I had it it would re traumatise me.

Personally when anyone is criticising their therapist I always ask questions first and think that is in everyone's best interests as many things can be playing out. Such as avoiding difficult subjects without realising it; transference and much more. Asking questions can help clarify the persons thoughts on the subject too. I never jump to conclusions unless there is obvious inappropriate action such as inappropriate touching. Some people struggle a lot with splitting and alternatively seeing their therapist as awful or wonderful and the best thing for them is to fight that. But looking at the bigger picture, questioning, and listening to our own intuition and feelings is the right approach. Encourage people to disregard their intuition and feelings can lead to very bad and even dangerous results. Especially for those that are vulnerable.

 

[Abstract]

I don't know if she's wrong. Maybe she is right and I am in fact doing myself no good. But ....she can't *force* me to realise it.

This is what I was getting from what you had written. I am glad you can see that you may be wrong. I think there is always a possibility that that is the case. But I totally agree with you that someone bulldozing one to change can be counter productive to say the least.

My previous example of T's insisting that stuff from the past had affected me and me being 100% convinced they were wrong is a good example. The person that got through to me the most in this department was my psychodynamic therapist. Not all the CBT ones. And I don't think anyone could have changed my mind more as I was just not able to do so.

I really, seriously, honestly, genuinely have worked the everloving shit out of that topic and it brought me exactly nowhere.

I am glad that you have worked really hard and being open to trying things. I think you are very justified to now want something different. You have earned the right. Sadly you will have to explain this again to someone new as they would have to know this. But I would hope you would be listened to.

I'll be without a T.

but I have insurance

I so hope you persevere. You really deserve support and healing. What can you do to make sure you get help?

What are the main issues that face you at present in your day to day life that you would benefit from working on and that feel manageable for you at present?

It seems you have done Dialectical behaviour therapy which seems was useful for skills.
You have done CBT.
Exposure therapy.

What else have you done and what have you not done?

 

[freakofnurture]

If it was then commented on every session after that for 20 sessions and packaged in judgemental language then I would feel attacked, judged and unsafe. And less trusting.

This is where the 'D' in DBT is so important. There needs to be work for change, but there also has to be acceptance for the things that are not yet ready for change.

The most frustrating thing is that I told my T that I need a break, some change, a different approach - but she still thinks that I'm like "I'll never ever in my life touch that topic again with a 20 foot pole." She has this expectation, I guess, that a 'break' can't take longer than a handful of sessions, and that she's allowing me to stall if she doesn't push me.

Encourage people to disregard their intuition and feelings can lead to very bad and even dangerous results. Especially for those that are vulnerable.

And this is part of the old approach. I kept disregarding my own experience, my own feelings, because people kept telling me: "Unless you can prove to me that you really really really *really* tried this for a million years already - and tried it the right way -, I'll not allow you to conclude that it does not work for you."

I ran in a hamster wheel of justifying and prooving my knowledge and understanding of my own psyche.

I'm beginning to feel like I should look for a T who also works with schizophrenics. At least they'd be able to accept a person's perceptions and feelings - even if they are about how the agents of the New World Order have tapped their phone and remote control their thoughts - until the person regains the necessary stability to realise their hallucinations and delusions as just that.

I am glad that you have worked really hard and being open to trying things. I think you are very justified to now want something different. You have earned the right.

Thank you so much :)

I remember these scenes from my in-patient stays, where I sat there, reduced to tears and yelling, asking: "How many more panic attacks do I have to go through until you finally believe me that I tried everthing and *still* get a panic attack when I do this?!"

Sadly you will have to explain this again to someone new as they would have to know this. But I would hope you would be listened to.

That's the most scary part. And I don't think that I could do this right now. I need some time to recharge and deal with my anger before it makes sense to put myself in that situation again.

What can you do to make sure you get help?

Well, for one I have my husband and my friends to help me calm down and mellow out enough to be ready for another T hunt. After that, I guess I'll play that game where I searche the internet for Ts and talk to answering machines.

What are the main issues that face you at present in your day to day life that you would benefit from working on and that feel manageable for you at present?

Since my day to day life doesn't include much contact with other people, my main problems are coping with the frustration of still being unempoyed (I need to work from home) and dealing with the fear that my husband will start to resent me for living off of his money. I also wish to find a way to no longer get so painfully angry as soon as I think about my p*rents.

What else have you done and what have you not done?

DBT, CBT, exposure, depth psychotherapy, art therapy, body centered/movement therapy, solution oriented group therapy, psychoeducation, guided imagination, all kinds of relaxation techniques, tai chi, occupational therapy, all coupled with various antidepressants and anxiolytics.

I haven't yet tried psychoanalysis (and all research I've done into how psychoanalysis is taught and practiced today tells me that it would be an extremely bad idea for me to try it) as well as all the stuff that isn't scientifically verified and therefore not paid for by my health insurance, like hypnosis and f*mily constellation, and stuff that's just nuts.

 

[BloomInWinter]

My new therapist and I just passed 20 sessions....I'm still scared of her (I sit with knees up against my chest)

Freak, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time.

I wanted to give you some things to think about. Feel free to reject any or all of what I say. :>

I wanted to find out more about this. The first 20 sessions, I still couldn't look my T. in the eye, but I did keep working on that until I could. I also sat as far away from him as I could, and literally ran out of his office.

He worked on drawing me out of myself. I had to really push myself to go way outside my comfort zone and sit facing him, looking him in the eyes as much as I could stand. It's still very hard for me.

Were you challenging yourself to try to put your feet down on the floor? Because if you're not able to push against your trust issues literally walling you in, chances are, nothing else that goes on in that room is likely to work, no matter who is on the other side of that wall.

IntoTheLight really helped me with this by asking me to ask myself if I thought that my therapist was basically a decent person with good intentions. Yes, he was and is. Therefore, I didn't have any real evidence as to why I didn't trust him, I just felt that I couldn't.

I went back anyway. I forced myself to keep giving him a chance, and tried to at least consider that what he had to say might actually have some merit.

I've never regretted taking any of his suggestions. They were painful at the time, but every one I 'tried on for size' did help stabilize my life in some very fundamental ways.

You also mention that you don't wish to address just sticking with your four friends. I understand that.

I generally find people exhausting. But I need people. Because in less than 6 months, I lost my best friend, her Mom, my cousin to suicide, and my other cousin to overdose. Four of the small group of people besides my hubby and kids who knew me, loved me, and who helped me not feel so alone in the world.

When I was in such despair, I realized I didn't have anyone else.

That's really the thing about keeping all of my 'self' to just a few people I deemed 'worthy.' When they were gone and I really needed help, I didn't know where to turn. Thankfully, I renewed contact with friends I had dropped along the way, and my life is so much more fulfilling now.

Also, safer. Because if I need physical help, or someone to watch the kids in a pinch, or take care of my dog, I have some people. I've met several other wonderful people through them.

But the biggest benefit really has been the constant stream of new information coming into my thinking. Before, when I stuck to myself, I just reinforced my distorted views. I was told the same thing by my therapist, and I didn't like it. I didn't see it. But he did, and as it turns out, so did many others in my life, they just didn't have the courage to tell me.

I needed to be told so I could work on those. My distorted thinking patterns worsen my suffering and keep my self-esteem in a terrible place where nobody gets in but the abusers of my past.

As I've identified those distortions - a clinical term, not a morality judgment - it turns out I took on many of the bizarre views of the world my abusers held, or views that I took on to deal with those situations. That programming has held me hostage to my traumas and kept me in the past all these years, instead of enjoying the present.

You are perfectly allowed to set whatever boundaries work for you. Mine were so bizarre even friends couldn't get through. Opening them up has been incredibly difficult and rewarding.

I decided when I went back to my therapist after firing him (the second time) that I was going to be willing to be willing to consider what he had to say. My best efforts at controlling my life landed me in his office, after all.

I took a leap of faith that he wasn't wishing me ill and just might actually be trying to help me.

I'm sure glad I did. The only regrets I have about my time with him, now, is that I didn't open up to him sooner. Developing trust with him, and telling him whenever I felt something negative about something he did or said helped me learn assertiveness and problem-solving skills in the real world that I was sorely lacking.

When I was stable enough to being EMDR, it was a LOT easier for me to trust the trauma therapist since I'd already learned that counselors could help me.

I hope you'll find a good situation that brings you stability, relief from suffering, and real moments of satisfying living in your true self which carry you well out in the world. Hang in there.