Attachment Issues

[Pencil]

Raven

You've often referred to this list, and it is obviously important and significant to you. I had a closer look just now, and I relate to absolutely everything, and I agree.

The question is, how does one go about it from here? If I want to achieve what is on the list, how will I get there?

As you said in your post:

It seems far more simple to find why we do what we do and try and fix that rather than fit in some diagnosis

I agree with you that one has to find the 'simpler' way, the path of least resistance. One has to apply Occam's razor. And there I think individual differences come in to play. I disagree with you about the second part: 'find out why we do what we do'. I believe I've dealt with that part, I think I know why I do what I do. For me the reasons are not the issue at this point in my life; what is important is how to overcome it. Regarding the third part: 'try and fix that', I agree; I want to fix it.

And so we are back to individual differences. I have no idea how you will overcome this, how you will fix it.

This list describes a person in relation to others, i.e. one can't achieve this on one's own. You can't be 'understood' or 'noticed' etc. on your own. There is another person (or people, ideally) in the equation. And therefore, I think the sequence is important: when one can stand in relation to others, then one can start working towards being understanding and understood, for example. But this means that one has to BE in relationship.

For me it means looking at my attachment difficulties first. I have the ability to make friends, and keep them. In my twenties I was extremely sociable and had a wide circle of friends. But I also realise that there was always a huge divide, and that I could never be described by any of these adjectives in relation to my friends, because of the distance I imposed - due to attachment problems. For this reason, I have become almost reclusive. Not because people are awful, but because of the strain I experience. People on this forum have criticised Facebook, for various reasons. I love Facebook, for it is the only way in which I can stay in contact with many friends from my past, albeit in a very artificial way thanks to the public relations tool that Facebook essentially is. I could not handle being in close contact with the same people.

My focus on attachment on this thread is the result of a very long process of analysing my particular difficulties. I know that if I spend the next ten years of my life working on my self-esteem, and skills for understanding and being understood etc etc, it will not solve one iota of my attachment problems. On the other hand, if I could resolve some of my attachment problems, it will go a long way towards enabling me to experience many of those things.

We each have to approach this beast from the angle or perspective where we find ourselves. How do you think you can or want to achieve this?

 

[raven123]

Pencil,

Maybe the key is learning to love yourself. Defeating the negative thoughts that have been learned, consciously and unconsciously, by replacing them with the opposite is the way to get there.

Negative Thoughts
I'm worthless, useless, stupid, etc.
"There is something wrong with me. I’m really messed up."
"I’m bad."
"It’s all my fault."
"I’m incompetent. I don’t know what I’m doing."
"I’m not (good, smart, attractive, rich, etc.) enough."
"I should have (fill in the blank)."
"I’m not as (good, smart, attractive, successful, etc.) as that person."
"I’ll never get that job."
"I’ll never be able to do this. I don’t have what it takes."
At a deeper level, you might hear:
"I don’t deserve to be happy. I don’t deserve to be loved. I don’t deserve to have what I want."
"I deserve to be punished. I don’t deserve to be forgiven."
Lack of self love can also get projected out as:
"That person doesn’t like me. No one likes me."

I just think you are wasting your time with this "attachment" theory. I saw the "rebirth" therapy on Youtube. I thought, "how is going through rebirth gonna do anything?" It won't. I know that isn't accepted by all. That rebirth crap.

My 1st psychiatrist said this about therapy, "If you don't see or those around you don't see demonstrable changes after a year of therapy, fire your shrink cause they are useless. Few people need more than 1-2 years of therapy." It may take years to defeat those thoughts to love yourself, but I don't think it takes 10 years and thousands and thousands of dollars in shrinkage. I think those shrinks that say that crap are nothing more than scam artist creating co-dependency.

I've been writing down all the negative stuff I believe about me and gonna write the opposite.

The opposite of love isn't hate, but control by the way. The real God or love doesn't control. So, if the thoughts are controlling and inhibiting you, they are wrong.

Why on earth would you spend the next ten years working on self-esteem? I don't think it takes that long. A year or two max to get rid of the negative thoughts. Find them and believe the opposite. I admit standing in front of the mirror telling myself, "I love you" sounds f*cking ridiculous and stupid. Maybe it won't sound so stupid in a few months. Love conquers all I've been told. Know what I mean?

 

[Pencil]

"attachment" theory. I saw the "rebirth" therapy on Youtube.

Hi Raven, yes, that is some radical attachment therapy that has been completely ... I can't find the word, I'm so tired, it is 2 am and I'm working through the night.

My main problem is not that I hate myself or humans, but that I am fairly neurotic about people, relating, love, friendship and so on. I can at best be described as 'skittish'. Walls go up, doors and windows slam, and I crawl under my psychological bed at the slightest hint of displeasure. This only happens when I am close to a person, or I love that person. With the general population I couldn't give a damn. So the more I care, the more I run. It is so stupid, but I can't stop doing it.

But I really like the direction you are going, and I hope I don't sound patronising. And I believe we can never love ourselves enough, so I'll try looking in the mirror and telling myself I love myself, and if I look f*cking ridiculous and stupid, I'll come back and ... :ninja:

 

[Pencil]

The word I was looking for earlier is 'discredited'. It was a really abusive practice.

 

[Pencil]

spend the next ten years working on self-esteem?

No, I don't intend doing that - I was exaggerating to make a point.

 

[Abstract]

So, Abstract, identify the obstacles

Hi Pencil,:)

I feel I might be a little clearer on how all this may look for you although they are just vague thoughts for you to consider. Would you still like me to put them forward? Its all pretty intense stuff isn't it? In some ways your responses to things are very different from mine and so I guess I have been making sure I am not responding in a way that would be more suitable for me. Hence the investigation... ;)

I am glad that was a helpful comment for you by the way. It was a genuine one.

It was a really abusive practice.

I shall admit I feel relieved to see you say this. I have at times been concerned you may be attracted to that type of therapy and end up harmed. Yes, it has been totally discredited.

 

[Pencil]

Would you still like me to put them forward?

I would appreciate that.

 

[piratelady]

Did find stuff on RAD

What is RAD? Please remember, not everyone knows what abbreviations mean.

 

[Pencil]

Hence the investigation...

Your investigations intuitively go in the right direction, so it helps me as well to clarify things for myself :)

 

[raven123]

Pirate Lady - It's right there in the post: "Did find stuff on RAD. I see myself in RAD. How is disorganized much different?

Complications of reactive attachment disorder can continue into adulthood and can include:"

 

[Springer80]

Walls go up, doors and windows slam, and I crawl under my psychological bed at the slightest hint of displeasure.

Hello, sorry to join the party late, but I'm really trying to get to grips with this. I have an odd feeling of a no mans land around the place I need to get to. So I'm stuck in a cycle of dissociating to pretend I have the attachment I need and my body mimics the feeling. Trying to undo this is like trying to wrench a teddy off a toddler. It's funny you put 'psychological bed' pencil cos I just posted some artwork which are representations of 'emotional personalities' (EPs, as opposed to ANPs 'apparently normal personality'). The last one is what your talking about I think? My latest breakthrough with it, is I realised I was not trying to get it out of there, I was it, I AM it. That has stopped a lot of internal conflict.

See: Meet The E.P's (Trauma Diaries).

 

[Pencil]

My latest breakthrough with it, is I realised I was not trying to get it out of there, I was it, I AM it. That has stopped a lot of internal conflict.

This is what I've been trying to do the last two days, if I understand you correctly. Heading over to meet the EPs :)