Deemed "untreatable."

[Abstract]

Do you understand and accept that flashbacks, intrusions and dissociation are the mainstay of PTSD and do you accept grounding as a concept? What grounding do you do?

 

[Animalliberator]

I am not surprised you have received some the response you have here. I think you are showing one of the things that sabotages therapy for you. The rigid thinking and lack of being able to fully commit yourself to a treatment is going to sabotage you badly and set you up for failure. It's not about having to agree with others about a particular treatment as we are all unique but rather about looking at the big picture and what you can change.

I could not disagree with you more, Abstract. I have and am willing to fully commit to therapy IF I can see tangible benefits. For instance, years ago I tried acupuncture to treat an injury. I went in with a very open mind. But acupuncture proved to be complete useless for me (talk about a scam!). Last year, I injured my shoulder badly. A friend suggested dry needle treatment (intramuscular stimulation). Given my very disappointing experience with acupuncture, which provided no benefits or relief, I was quite skeptical about IMS. In fact, I was certain it was also quackery. Much to my surprise, IMS worked like a charm! Despite my serious reservations and doubts about it, IMS was effective. Now, I swear by IMS. Why? Because it PROVED effective for me. I entered into IMS treatment thinking it was a joke, like acupuncture, and yet it completely healed my shoulder.

You mistake my comments for rigid thinking. I am very open to therapies. But they have to 1) be grounded in science; 2) have a track record of effectiveness; 3) show me some proof in my own personal experience that it works; 4) make sense to me. SE does not pass any of those criteria. Instead, there seems to be a cult that has developed around it like EST or the Atkins Diet. I hope I can change some things about my life. But I can't do it by myself. I need the help of a competent therapist who employs techniques that work. Thus far, I'm unimpressed withe SE. I see it as a hoax that, sadly, has suckered a lot of people who are in such pain that they will cling to anything that looks like a lifeboat.

I can and would fully commit to a therapy that works. But it is difficult for me to commit to a therapy like SE that appears to be nonsense.

 

[Lost Pup]

But just because it proved effective for you doesn't mean it is actually effective. Placebos work for some people, too. Doesn't mean that they should be used to treat people with illness.

So let's see... Your condition is so intractable that 50 therapists have rejected you yet you are in a place to tell those of us successfully working with certain types of therapists that we are simply "suckers" who are responding to "placebo?"

That's pretty bold. I wish you luck in this approach.

PS. By the way, since you are tossing around the notion of "snake oil," [DLMURL="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something"]this article[/DLMURL] might be of interest. Turns out that real snake oil actually contains more Omega 3 fatty acids than salmon and, as you may know, these unique fats are clinically demonstrated to prevent heart disease, depression, diabetes, etc.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Ok new response, tired of editing lol.

Another part of the problem is your need for cold hard facts before you will believe in a type of therapy. Shooting yourself in the foot. I've done neurofeedback which doesn't have much true "evidence" for helping PTSD specifically as well as attended an intensive trauma program which is very different from anything else out there as the treatment sequence and modalities were created by the doctor who ran the program. If I waited around for cold hard facts that proved these therapies worked, I'd still be in and out of long term hospital care. I can honestly credit these two therapies with propelling my healing forward more than almost anything else.

Holding in to a need for "proof" is one way that you keep yourself sick. Why are you keeping yourself sick? Simply put, because it's SAFE. You know nothing else. The fear of the unknown scares you. Healing scares you. There is comfort in PTSD because that is what you know. I don't know the exact term but I do know there's a phenomenon where people actually do in fact keep themselves sick for one reason or another----like I said, I'm guessing safety. Those who go through the motions but don't actually heal. Those who are in and out of the hospital over years and years. Those who go to therapy but don't put in all the effort. I'm not saying this is definitely you, but it's something to ponder.

 

[Tinyflame]

Animalliberator, may I ask, what do you define 'working' as regards to in therapy? (That is, what do you mean by a therapy that 'works', what are you defining as 'effective'?) Is it symptom management, for example? If you can define your goals it will be easier to plan how to get there.

I am not sure if I understand your point #3, if you had personal experience with a method that works you would not be feeling like you were 'untreatable'. Whatever will work for you is likely not something you've tried yet, or as others have said you need to try again with possibly a different approach.

 

[Abstract]

You still have not answered my questions Animalliberator. Thanks.

 

[anthony]

Do you understand and accept that flashbacks, intrusions and dissociation are the mainstay of PTSD

Please explain??? Anxiety is the primary component and symptom of PTSD, and thus many other symptoms of PTSD derive from anxiety themselves.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

This seem to be going nowhere. Maybe we should just agree that he truly is untreatable because this seems to be what he wants to hear as any suggestion otherwise (except those by Anthony) seem to be met with resistance. I'd rather comment on threads where people really do want help.

PS Atkins isn't quackery or cultish. I've lost a lot of weight on a low carb diet that pre-dates Atkins. Yes, it does work, and no, I don't belong to a cult. This just shows that your mind is closed to many things, not just therapy. The denial is so deep that nobody here is going to be able to convince you that things aren't exactly as you hold them in your tunnel-vision world view.

 

[anthony]

Somatic therapy does not work on me for PTSD... so I think both sides of the equation are valid. I've tried a few, and most didn't work because they lacked common sense when relating to me. Acupuncture has helped with me post-surgery, but not relaxation. Massage doesn't relax me either... a couple of beers, good atmosphere, some good conversation, will relax me.

Are you a veteran by any chance?

I'd actually have to say that 80 - 90% of therapies out there that claim they work for PTSD, are more adjunctive / limited to minor groups of belief systems, opposed to actually working directly within the brain to target traumatic issues. PTSD treatments and therapies are different things... as therapy is not treating PTSD, and treating trauma is not considered therapy, as it's quite difficult, anxiety raising, symptom triggering, opposed to leaving therapy with some type of outcome each session. Treating trauma can takes months to see actual results.

 

[Abstract]

Anthony, what I meant is that anxiety can come with other conditions too. PTSD is about all the criteria added together. It is the fact that we are traumatised and are reliving the past that sets it aside from other things though and causes much of the anxiety and grounding is an essential part of managing re living and thus PTSD.

Do you think it's possible to manage PTSD without grounding skills?

I also don't believe people are insisting that Animal liberator needs to benefit from specific things and are rather commenting on his thinking. 50 therapists is a lot.

 

[Animalliberator]

If someone could explain - in PLAIN English - how feeling water on one's body while taking a shower helps heal trauma, I'm all ears. The problem is everything I've read about SE - in Dr. Levine's book, web pages, and comments on various sites - sounds so woo-woo and airy-fairy that it makes little sense. It is as if the books and articles have been written by someone named "Windfeather" who's inhaled a bit too much patchouli and gazed at one too many crystals. Tangible, well-articulated evidence, backed by science, would be helpful. Otherwise, SE is just another fad that will eventually be proved to be a hoax - and a tragedy for those who buy into it.

 

[Animalliberator]

Holding in to a need for "proof" is one way that you keep yourself sick. Why are you keeping yourself sick? Simply put, because it's SAFE.

I respectfully disagree. You don't know me. And you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to my issues.

 

[Animalliberator]

The fear of the unknown scares you. Healing scares you. There is comfort in PTSD because that is what you know. I don't know the exact term but I do know there's a phenomenon where people actually do in fact keep themselves sick for one reason or another----like I said, I'm guessing safety. Those who go through the motions but don't actually heal. Those who are in and out of the hospital over years and years. Those who go to therapy but don't put in all the effort. I'm not saying this is definitely you, but it's something to ponder.

Again, you don't know me. And your assumptions about me could not be more wrong. I am not frightened of healing at all. I would love to heal. But I don't simply accept what a therapist tells me. Nor do I put stock in a type of therapy simply because others say it is the best thing since sliced bread. I'm not a spiritual person, don't believe in souls or an afterlife (we become compost when we're gone), and I have a great disdain for organized religion. Why? Because it is all based in blind faith. I simply don't operate in that realm. So again, my skepticism has NOTHING to do with fear of getting better and EVERYTHING to do with facts, evidence, science, and credibility.