How Do You Work With/around Avoidance?

[Chava]

For those of you who are avoidant of relationships or getting close to anyone (or just avoidant of people in general), how have you worked with it, either on your own or through therapy?

What I seem to deal with is not like shyness, but beyond that. If I attempt to go to a new place, new group, new meeting, new meditation place (etc), I make very poor to no attempts to connect. If someone approaches me, I do quite a bit better. But if nobody notices me as the newbie or approaches me, my disappearing act seems to get triggered (it's hyper-sensitive), and I further disappear through not being able to make eye contact. It's like I make myself unnoticeable and unapproachable. I don't want to, but the pull is intense. So, usually I am met with little response, I disappear, I feel invisible and ashamed, and I never go back.

My options are pretty limited at this point, since I keep doing this and live in a pretty rural area. I've scared myself away from too many little attempts and never want to go back (to the meditation group, the religious group, the bigger group of friends and friends-of-friends, etc). I sometimes want to move to a bigger city to start over and have more chances, but I also realize I carry this with me.

I'd like to talk to my therapist about it more because I also feel invisible and disappearing to myself, in my near-constant isolation. It's hard to do this life. But I'm scared to even try much anymore...approaching a new situation or trying to get to know others feels something like being on fire and nobody notices. It's nearly that dreadful, scary, and uncomfortable sometimes.

(I used to play with an orchestra and felt like I belonged there...and it was a social structure that worked for me...I had to quit because of injury and realize, all along, I have no idea how to do human connections beyond getting along well at work).

 

[watundah]

My social anxiety used to be crippling. I had a period in my life where most of my outings were sitting at a bar by myself. The SA is much better now but still flares up and Im not sure what the triggers are.

I watched someone years ago and learned that asking questions is a great way to engage others and takes the focus off yourself. Most people are so ego driven they love talking about themselves and it meant I didn't have to. On the rare occasion that someone asked questions back I felt Id found someone special. Trust is still slow and outside of my spouse I don't think anyone really knows me but now I can talk about myself - though often disappointed by lack of reciprocal interest
I think the only thing you can do is keep putting yourself out there. It really does get easier. Are you close to a larger city where maybe once a week you can travel and engage in a group that interests you? Or volunteer in your community. Like the orchestra, follow something that brings you joy and puts you around people at the same time.

 

[xraydave]

My social anxiety used to be crippling. I had a period in my life where most of my outings were sitting...

I agree with you and well my psychiatrist haha and i feel like i can relate to the OP as well . but i feel like it's more than social anxiety. sure social anxiety is a result, but the process i think, is completely different.

we tend to recognize threats in our environment and try to avoid them, but moreso because they are all contorted and 'big' to me, at least. like it's not that i think people will stare at me, but people will 'hurt me' or pull some shit, and it's just dangerous to head outside. not that others will judge me at all.

so i feel like PTSD social withdrawal, really is it's own thing. maybe even the therapy is the same, but the social problems are totally different for me. it's not that i can't because of negative views of myself and the world, but purely the threatening aspect of the world and how that's really messed up my head and everything.

 

[watundah]

I can understand the difference. Thanks for explaining this.

 

[Chava]

I relate a little to social anxiety, but it's more like avoidance of relationships in general. I also relate to PTSD avoidance...like somewhat chaotic social situations I can't do, or I can be situated with my back to an exit, etc...all those quirks.

And I also, on some level, just expect to be hurt. I also feel sort of dragged under a train and somehow exploited (this isn't the right word, but I can't find it right now) by letting others even get to know me. Either they don't reciprocate or lose interest, or I do my sort of vanishing thing (I just suck), or I trusted someone and then the relationship feels f*cked up for one of these reasons.

I feel stupid trusting people or letting anyone get to know me. It's too much. I feel like I offer tiny bits of my soul and they are robbed because they are made to feel worthless (I know this is a lot of my own doing.).

Most of this isn't coming out right because I can't explain it well. I think it's some glob of early developmental trauma and attachment junk. Like my mom never knew me and didn't care to. And worse sometimes (like she broke a door against my back...I wasn't even like a human to her sometimes, when she was really f*cked up). So I'm always protecting the shred of inner world or soul I have. I don't trust it anywhere because it's so fragile and unsure of even existing. I don't feel like I'm real to other people, but alone I am somewhat real to myself. Does this make any sense? I don't know how to get out of my bubble.

There's a new group thing I was interested in but I really can't do it. I was in ER late last night (another story I don't want to get into). I just can't manage much anyway. I wish I could take some kind of happy-love medication like oxytocin. Because I'm honestly not very drawn to even having relationships. But I'm always on some impossible edge of feeling like I can only exist safely in isolation, and yet I can't always feel like I exist if I don't exist in anyone else's mind. This is what I grew up with and I don't know if I can fix it.

 

[xraydave]

I relate a little to social anxiety, but it's more like avoidance of relationships in general. I also rela...

I had the same thing with my dad. he never cared to know me, and almost-never took up any responsibility for his actions. everyone else, including me, had to take up responsibility in his place, and it just didn't work out for anyone's mental health.

your mother was supposed to care for you, and she didn't. same with my dad, but not everyone outside your bedroom, is going to be like that. i've noticed my dad has not just psychological traits of a narcissistic abuser, but also the history and the biology of one. These things come up like variations in a population, and its inevitable that some people will have different views and attitudes, that's what keeps 'normal' or stable people present in a society, almost at all times.

I guess this is also what i need to learn, being stuck in my room for very similar reasons myself. to not overfocus on abnormal experiences and people, and forsake normal experiences and stable people, by stepping outside, i see the normal world as it is, and i have more regular and normal experiences. it's really more stable outside and the people are more supportive than these variants in a population (unstable parental figures) and they can give positive support to me, just like i can give to them. to be as bad as my dad always said it will be? maybe even close to never. and that's what psychological abuse is really. it is really what we are scared of, not out there - but in here...

i'm a POW in my own mind, but when i come out, i will get out a war veteran.

 

[Changing4Best]

I think it is important to be doing something when around people. Going out to eat with others, or doing a study with them or playing a game like Bingo helps me. If I were just sitting there and had nothing to keep my mind and my hands occupied, I think that would be not so good, if that makes any sense? As to making eye contact, I don't think that is necessary so much as maybe just looking in the person's general direction. I think it is OK to look down somewhat, or to the side of the person, especially when you first get introduced. With time, it gets a little easier to look someone in the eye.

 

[Friday]

I do everything I'm afraid of... Eventually.

I don't tolerate fear. It pisses me off. So when I find out I'm afraid of something? I start messing with it, and worrying at it, and chipping away at it... Until it doesn't have a hold anymore. Fear can bite me. But I bite back.

I am a helluva lot kinder with my son than I am with myself. I need brutal. Come on ya damn pansy. My son? LOL. Same concept, completely different approach. He's a kid. He's learning. So I keep things light and fun. Okay. How can we break this down? How can we turn it into a game? How can we build the self confidence in natural steps so the thing that frightened him before, he leaps into without even a second's hesitation, because it's the natural next step? And he's totally got this, with a huge grin on his face? Takes a lot of working backwards, reverse engineering where I want him to be with where he's at now.

My son is a very different person than I am. So it takes some real thinking on how to approach things so they make natural sense to him, instead of to me. I've gaffled it a few times to be honest. But that's my fault. If he's afraid of something, that's my fault for not adequately preparing him. Not his for being brave enough to be afraid and still be trying. So it behooves me to figure it out. <chuckling> Most of the time I do this in private, but he's seen me do it enough times on the fly, that it's fun to watch him with his dog or his friends, when something ain't working. "Well. Let's figure it out." Or "Well. Let's try something different." So even mistakes? Can be a good thing to learn to see as not something wrong, exactly, just something to work through. ;)

 

[Ocean5]

It's good you are making attempts. I like the ideas others posted about traveling to a new city, or volunteering. Are you near Amtrak or MegaBus? Try a day trip to start maybe?

When my ptsd is bad days/weeks/months...I don't want people around me - I just want to be isolated & don't make eye contact. Then like you feel ashamed, and realize this is not me....

When abused, or neglected, as a kid it's hard to trust...hard to let people in your life. Like you said, "I can only exist safely in isolation"

My thought are with you

 

[Chava]

Try a day trip to start maybe?

Actually there is a friend I'd like to visit on the other side of the U.S. So not a day trip, but keeping a check on my budget so I can maybe buy a $400 plane ticket on a break. It's hard for me to even make goals like that, but I think I'd like that.

When abused, or neglected, as a kid it's hard to trust...hard to let people in your life. Like you said, "I can only exist safely in isolation"

Thanks for validating/understanding that. I had a past therapist who pushed me to go out and "have fun" (my current therapist is more understanding). I'm extremely self-protective, and for me, that's a step up because I used to be so self-destructive and comfortable in non-existence. I think I'm actually more isolative in my recovery because I want to have this protected "self" but I don't know how to maintain it among others (if that makes sense).

 

[Ocean5]

Actually there is a friend I'd like to visit on the other side of the U.S

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Thanks for validating/understanding that. I had a past therapist who pushed me to go out and "have fun".

Glad I could provide some comfort. I was having a bad night, and knowing I help you some helps me. Thanks.

btw, I hate when people say just go have some fun.

You are making steps in positive direction - remember that :)