Childhood Child On Child Sexual Behaviour

[Hopefully]

One of my main struggles has been what is considered normal and maybe that is because 'normal' is impossible to define or dependent on too many variables but, forgive me, I am going to ask anyway...

What is considered normal sexual behaviour between a brother (aged 12/13) and sister (aged 9/10)? Where is the line when this is not considered exploratory play? If there are not obvious threats can it still be coercive?

I so want to be able to define it, to understand it better, but nothing ever feels right.

 

[Justmehere]

It would not be developmentally normal or appropriate for a 12/13 year old boy to engage in sexual contact with any family members under any circumstance.

It's more fitting for 2-5 year olds to be curious about other's bodies in that way, and it's best to have safe adults guide them in what's appropriate and not. Even if the kid is 3 and starts trying to gets other kids involv d ins sexual play - that can be upsetting and confusing and even traumatizing for another young kid - and that's where and adult comes in and teaches about how what a bathing suit covers we don't touch... kind of stuff.

Over the age of 7, if sexual exploration type of behavior is continuing, it's usually a big red flag that other issues are happening and time to get professional help involved.

There is a decent chance he was probably acting out of sexual abuse he survived.

That doesn't mean that the impact on you was different because of what he may have been through. Such sexual contact is confusing and invasive for the developing brain - which is why minors are not considered to be able to consent to sexual activity - they are not old enough to know better when they are young. By 13, they usually have a better sense of it.

It's not about being threatened into it - kids are naturally complaint and easy to talk into things that they are too young to know they should say no to, or too young to know how to say no.

If the question you are considering is if this was sexual abuse or not, it probably was. Is your brother a perpetrator? His age and the circumstances might mean he is not fully responsible like an adult perpetrator - but that doesn't mean the events were harmless to you. And even if you completely said you wanted to do it -- you both were too young to fully know otherwise, too young to give any legal consent to each other -- because even if you both outrigh consented, it could still have negative and traumatizing impact. That's why the law is clear that kids of that age can't consent.

Think about little kids who hit each other. It's assault, and it can scare a child and impact them for a long time. But should every young child who hits another child go to prison like an adult who hits a child? In most (all?) cases, no. What they need is safe adults who teach them what is and isn't ok. This would be especially true of pre-teens - and it would become more serious and the impact would be more traumatizing than 3-5 years old, but the right response may or may not be the same as if it as an adult hitting a child. I think that part of it - the complex issues around the responsibility of a minor - makes people confused as to if the events were wrong or traumatizing or not. They are just as wrong and possibly traumatizing even if the other person was a 13 years old.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Anarchy]

Welcome to the forum!

The confusion that you expressed about it in your post, is a big clue that it wasn't all right for you.

I think the experiences can be very different for younger females, even when there's no overt coercion. I'm male, I had experiences with a fourteen year old non sibling male when I was about 8 or 9. There were some earlier ones too, before he reached puberty.

Females who have related having similar experiences, seem to have been much more adversely affected than I seem to have been, even when their genitals weren't explored. The whole strangeness, suddenness, secrecy and "dirtiness" of the experience seems to be very upsetting for girls.

I'm guessing that if my experience had been with a 14year old girl, I'd have found it very disturbing.

 

[Hopefully]

@Justmehere Thank you, I really appreciate your time in replying.

Does that make any sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. Does it make perfect sense when I apply it to me though? Not so much! I know it should, I am trying to really hear it and know it. With the therapist I was seeing she would allow me to ask all these questions although never answered them, I think she wanted me to be able to get there myself.

The trouble I have is that I have lost so many of the memories, there are parts of a couple of times that I remember with vivid detail but so much I let go of, I can even remember the day as a teenager when I thought I don't want to remember this any more. I wanted to keep a couple of memories so I would know that it happened, that no one could tell me otherwise, but the rest just went. Now I wish I could remember more, it feels like it would help me understand everything better, to not feel all this confusion.

You make the comparison with hitting which is interesting, mainly because that too was part of it, although always separate to this sexual behaviour but continued for a few years even after that stopped, until I was 15, but I don't think that part of it bothers me that much. It is hard as I do agree that there is diminished responsibility, but I have diminished the responsibility to the point where I say it wasn't a problem or that if I was I need to take some of that as well. Siblings fight, that's normal.

The whole strangeness, suddenness, secrecy and "dirtiness" of the experience seems to be very upsetting

@Anarchy I really don't think I could have summed it up so succinctly, that is exactly how it feels, the shame of knowing I let that happen to myself, that I was part of this, is immense.

Thank you for the feedback, it is really appreciated.

 

[EveHarrington]

A 12/13 year old knows that sexual contact with family members is wrong------unless of course this is what he was taught. I'm not absolving him of responsibility, rather saying why he may have acted that way. Could he have been abused, too?

 

[Rumors]

Gosh, I have a similar scenario except with a cousin. It started when I was about 4 and he was 12ish maybe. I grapple with it being "normal" sexual exploration.... It just went on for a while...
I hope you figure it out...

 

[Hopefully]

@EveHarrington Was he abused? I have no idea, a possibility maybe but I have no way to really know.

What I do know is that it started, I think, fairly innocently with looking under the covers and that type of behaviour, when it ended a few years later he was trying to have sex with me, getting me to masterbate him and asking me to perform oral sex on him. When I try to think clearly I think I know he orchestrated these moments, he was aroused, he was taking what he wanted. Most the time though I tell myself it was fine, not a problem, it's just kids.

It feels so wrong and so normal at the same time. I don't know how I can ever understand it.