Does Anyone Else Have Trouble "learning The Rules" For Boundaries?

[Zenab]

Hey, my name is Zenab, and I am new here. Hopefully it helps.

Does anyone else have trouble learning the rules when it comes to like, boundaries, and the way that relationships are supposed to progress?

I get very frustrated when people tell me either tell me that I have guards up, or that I "spill my guts too quickly." It annoys me because I don't quite understand why personal relationships are even worth the energy of learning that many cues and rules.

Social life has always struck me as a dance that everyone else knows the steps to, because they just learned it from someone and probably didn't question it, and that I am expected to dance too, except that I don't know any of the steps. And I get frustrated when people tell me to learn the steps now, or people try to "help me" by teaching me the steps, because watching everyone else dance has made me wonder if it's worth learning the steps at all.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Very much agreed. I have no clue how things are supposed to progress. I used to say too much. Now I tell people nothing or very little "fluff" stuff that doesn't really matter.

I'm 33 and I think it's too late for me to learn what most kids learned in preschool (friends) and what most teenagers learned in high school (relationships).

Boundaries I am learning, social rules are a bit tougher. I don't even know how to start making friends. (Sad, huh?) Ok maybe I didn't say that right. I'm ok with talking, chatting, blah blah blah but I can't ever ask someone to do something with me, hang out, whatever. That's where it all gets stuck. I do most things by myself. I like doing a lot of things by myself, don't get me wrong, but at the same time it can get lonely at times.

 

[Venusian]

@Solara, I couldn't have said that better myself. @Zenab, it is like a dance that so many of us never learned the steps to. I wonder if that is what it is like for all of us or just those of us with childhood trauma. I can't remember being any other way.

 

[Orglethorp]

What a perfect way to describe it - a dance that we don't know the steps to. I'm with Venusian, wondering if it's unique to those of us who experienced childhood traumas or not. I also tend to either not say enough or say too much at the wrong times, and I'm never sure when is the right time to reveal what. I'm able to start the process of forming friendships, but I never know how fast or slow things are supposed to progress. I never know what's appropriate or expected.

I'm particularly bad at the beginning of romantic relationships. I'm not an impulsive person by any means, I think things through before I make my decisions, but once I've made a decisions, it's made. In terms of romantic relationships, this means that if I've progressed to the point of agreeing to date someone, I'm already invested. I've already gotten to know them (often more than they realize), I've decided that I'm interested in a relationship, and I spend the few weeks between the first date and the fourth or so wondering if I've screwed something up because they don't seem as invested as I feel. Rationally, and from experience, I realize that most people out there take things slower than I do, but emotionally, it's torture!

 

[Nebulustrix]

I feel this way also. My trauma was not a childhood trauma, so I cannot blame that. However, I am borderline Aspergers, which includes a number of social inadequacies. I tend to take the "steps" of a relationship very slowly while sharing personal and detailed information more quickly - putting my dance to a different beat than the norm.

I have a very hard time with "small talk" and chit chat, because it bores and disinterests me. I recognize that this sends a message to people that they bore and disinterest me, but this is not the case. I simply don't care for conversations about topics that seem pointless or meaningless. Because of this, my attempts to start relationships always seem intense and overpowering, as my irritation with the small talk leads me to side-step it altogether and jump right into topics that interest me more.

This also means I am very straight forward and direct about my history, past, emotional status, and my plans and goals for my future. This means if others are interested and ask me questions about my thoughts for a relationship, I tell them very directly where I stand and what I'm looking for. I'm often told that this is a rare trait that others like, because it shows I'm not going to "play games" or put on a front, but I think it actually has a tendency to scare them off, because - like my difficulties with conversations - it makes me seem like I'm coming on too strong.

On top of it all, I am very physically withdrawn, because I have to build an emotional/intellectual attraction with someone - which takes quite a bit of time - before I am comfortable with adding a physical component. And even if I reach that point, where I am willing to start adding something physical, my ptsd rears it's ugly head and fills me with fear, anxiety, uncertainty, etc.

 

[LEMMING]

Hi, I'm Lemming, I'm new here so hi all.

When I try to make friends, I focus on them rather than if I'm getting it right. I function best when I am comfortable in the chosen surroundings, and try to treat people in the way I wish to be treated, often with humour, this helps put them and therefore me, in a more relaxed state with each other. As for social boundaries, reaching out for the etiquette book usually quells any fears, and although I tell them straight up that I have a mental health issue, I try not to talk too much about it at the beginning. Trust issues I suppose, but I have made lifelong friends this way. Don't know if this will help or if I'm just rambling, whichever it is I wish you well with making new friends and relationships, whatever works for you. Above all, accept yourself, others will be more accepting of you. Good luck. :)

 

[stuff]

So hard. I think I grew up thinking that it was best to never reveal anything about my past with the exception of discussing accomplishments and attempting to make idle chit chat. I tend to work on projects, study, and learn as many new things as I can to get my mind off of my symptoms. Struggling with insomnia means I do a lot of stuff. This coupled with a fear of asking people about their lives because I was afraid of being intrusive made things very difficult. You can't really make friends if you can't share experiences. I think I came across as being a cold, overachiever, or disinterested and snobby. The few friends I had when I was younger we're usually people who I had shared hobbies with, but we only ever talked about those hobbies, so I ended up with dozens of acquaintances but very few actual friends. Therapy has helped, but learning the dance has been hard and exceedingly hard in romantic relationships.

I definitely agree with Orglethorp:

I'm particularly bad at the beginning of romantic relationships. I'm not an impulsive person by any means, I think things through before I make my decisions, but once I've made a decisions, it's made. In terms of romantic relationships, this means that if I've progressed to the point of agreeing to date someone, I'm already invested. I've already gotten to know them (often more than they realize), I've decided that I'm interested in a relationship, and I spend the few weeks between the first date and the fourth or so wondering if I've screwed something up because they don't seem as invested as I feel.

I feel like having had a traumatic childhood, I learned to read people very quickly, and in unconventional ways. I've observed many of the small details in gauging a person, when most people are just starting to have the lines come into focus. It's almost like being socially mis-paced and can lead to difficulty in terms of people misinterpreting it as over interest.

I'm still struggling with the how much to share and when. I probably started out by over-sharing, but I am more discerning with time. My last partner said that I had traumatized him by sharing my life with him, so I'm still having a very hard time gauging how much to share with romantic partners. It's pretty stressful.

I disclose my PTSD quite openly and fairly early on in any type of relationship, because it affects my life, and will likely affect that person's life at some point if we continue. Plus, observing a person's reaction to a disclosure about mental health is pretty telling.
I don't have time for people who attach a stigma to that stuff.

 

[rightkindofme]

I consciously seek out autistic people because I find that I do better with them. There is no fluffy lame conversation. If I am being too intense (at least *my* autistic friends) can say, "Whoa. You're freaking me out." But they don't leave. They don't reject me and they don't refuse to talk to me ever again. My autistic friends are like, "Man. Talking to people is hard." Then we give each other a hug and go our separate ways and hang out again next week. (The hugs didn't happen until many many years into the relationships when there was an awkward combination about "So we've been friends for a really long time and sometimes I feel the impulse to hug you but we don't have that kind of relationship. Do you think that at some point it might be safe enough to hug?")

Mostly I maintain boundaries with NT (neuro-typical) people by being time limited. I can handle half an hour or an hour of talking about what they want to talk about. I smile a lot and ask a lot of questions so that I can kind of control the flow of conversation. People tend to feel like I "really care" about them whereas in my brain I'm more cynical. It is less that I "really care" about every person and more that I want to have a lot of control over my environment and a lot of how I manage this is by knowing more about other people than they know about me.

It's a lot easier to manage to not offend people if you can guess where their boundaries are. It is really hard though. I have gotten better but I'm far from perfect.

I am very out about my mental health issues but I don't necessarily say it as the reason for my poor social issues. When someone looks kind of offended about something I have said I will sometimes fall back on, "I grew up poor white trash so I don't necessarily know the correct social manners in any given situation--did I mis-step somehow?" Saying that generally gives people a slight pause but then they kind of understand what I mean.

I find that the more often I publicly announce things like, "Gosh I think I may have said something that wasn't exactly tactful again. I'm so sorry. Let me try again" people give me a lot of slack. If I publicly identify that I am messing up and I kind of know it and I am trying people often feel bad for me and tolerate stuff they wouldn't from other people. I understand it to be cold-hearted manipulation and I can live with that. I'm trying to get the best experience out of life that *I* can get.

I don't worry about knowing the "right" social steps. I've moved too many times to believe there is any such thing as the "right" step. The kids in the trailer park in Texas had no overlapping behaviors with the kids in the projects in LA who had no overlapping behaviors with the rich kids in the bay area who all have millionaires for parents. I've seen a lot of different worlds and I don't fit anywhere. I do feel happy that I know that it isn't just me. If you picked any of those kids up and transplanted them they would flounder.

Every person has their own unique little view of the world. Most people view themselves as kind of powerless and lower status than they want to be. Even the PTA president is usually very insecure. All of the CEOs I know have self-esteem issues.

Mostly I go through life trying to point out positive things I see. All of us have the ability to determine patterns--that is one of the things that happens when you come from abuse. You see patterns. You can see good and bad traits. I find that pointing out the random good things I see inclines people to think favorably of me. It buys me good will so that when I wander off to cry hysterically they think, "Oh that poor girl" instead "That #^&@! is getting what she deserves."

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

Hi Zenab, I am 29 and I am right there with you. You did describe it very well.

In my healing journey, I have found that I think the dance steps are dumb. I would much rather just be myself. I have a very close friendship with a gal who was Maid of Honor at my wedding. I have only known her for 4 years but we can tell each other anything. I got this friendship by JUST being myself.

Screw the rules! I know that feels lonely because so many wanna dance the dance, but in my personal opinion, that dance is just a game. Who of those people are really being their true selves at the end of the day? How exhausting that must be. Real friends love who you are and accept you just as you are. I know it sounds cliche, but it REALLY is the truth.

I would rather come out of life with just the one friend I just told you about then having 10 "friends" who are so afraid to be themselves that they spend so much time telling me who I should be or how I should act.

We have worked SO HARD to stop the cycle of our own childhood traumas where people stifled us and abused us to the point we had to hide our true selves just to survive. The last thing we need is present life people doing it.

Although the dance is enticing, let your light shine! Wave your I-Am-different-flag and be proud of it. I'd be your friend over those dancers any day of the week, hands down. Maybe they are the ones who need a lesson, not us!

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I think that the dance is inevitable to a point. I don't think it's a matter of just being yourself. I don't care who you are or where you're from, there are always going to be certain unspoken social rules that you'll have to follow in order to be accepted. Even the fiercely independent free spirited types follow rules, although they'll likely deny it!

 

[Deleted member 20978]

Does anyone else have trouble learning the rules when it comes to like, boundaries, and the way that relationships are supposed to progress?

Yep. Probably most of us here, or at least those with childhood trauma.

because watching everyone else dance has made me wonder if it's worth learning the steps at all.

It's not worth spending a ton of effort and failing to make progress. But it's absolutely worth it if you can learn any new steps, because human connection is the single most correlated factor in human happiness.

Ever read Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People? Even if the lessons aren't the stuff you didn't learn in kintergarden, it's chock full of insights and food for thought. There's also academic texts in Psych and Sociology that spell out the dance steps involved in bonding, small talk, progression of relationships, etc. And then there's books on reading people, on how to pick up or attract members of the preferred sex, how to communicate effectively.

Just thoughts. I guess everyone has there own flavor of feeling unable to do the social dance, but I can completely relate. And having been *more* socially adept at one point, I can emphatically say, yes, it is worth all the effort. People who have people are the luckiest people. For real.

 

[Abstract]

I think it comes down to not being allowed boundaries as children. Children protected and taught appropriate boundaries end up the ability to flexibly adjust their boundaries to what is needed in each situation.

Those of us who have been taught that we don't have any or being set the example of bad or rigid boundaries end up veering from one extreme to the other and often not appropriately. Apparently it can change at different points and I know that has happened for me.

Learning about and getting used to using appropriate boundaries in each situation is what so much of recovery is about in my mind. Too little and we leave ourselves open to danger or harm. Too little and we deny ourselves all the joy of connecting to others and all that comes with that.

Darn hard work but so important.