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Sufferer Forgiveness

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Hi I am new here. I am 29 year old guy. I am suffering from PTSD, suffered horrendous abuse as a kid, struggling to cope with it as an adult. One of the things I come across a lot is people saying I 'need' to forgive to move on, but the problem I have is that I cannot for the life of me see how Forgiving is 'not' the same as condoning...its got be me really wound up. I have researched and read every argument and study i can find and I still come to the same conclusion that to forgive what was done to me and forgive the people who did it, is the same as saying 'what you did is ok' and its just not...i feel very trapped with it, because if it is the way forward and I cannot do it then I shall never heal....

I have counsellors etc and they cannot give me an answer either, they generaly say i 'don't' have to forgive but that dosen't seem to ring true for what everyone is saying.
 
Hi Arthur,

Welcome around the forums. Sorry you're here, but glad you found us to talk to. ;)

You don't need to forgive, ever. These people' talks come from a position of ignorance in the better case, apologism & victim blaming in other.

Moving on isn't about your abusers, either; it's about you, and your journey, and your relationship to everything. If you can't move on from what was done to you, ever? You're not worse person of it. It wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.

You're not trapped. You can take so many courses of action from here, and none of them involving well meant, yet toxic as hell, advice from people who never were there.

Disregard what doesn't work in your life. It doesn't matter for how many people it's applicable, and doesn't make you different from rest of the species.
 
I've never forgiven my dad and never will.
I've gotten a LOT better than I used to be, current relapse aside...
(ooh! That's right, I have been better! Okay, I can get better again, then...I think... Right...)

...Now, that said? I'm less consumed with murder fantasies than I used to be. Mmm...murder fantasies, fun!
Under the rage, once I stopped feeling it so powerfully? There was a huge reservoir of grief. The fury was keeping the grief down.

The idea that you HAVE to forgive to get better is nonsense. Some people find it very helping to forgive? Others do not. It's an individual thing.

I think society's not comfortable with the outrage of adults abused as kids...because society likes to lie to itself that it actually cares about children and their well-being... Which...uh, no. They like to pay lip service to that, say they care? But they don't.
 
Hey there, welcome to the forum!

A lot of people run around proclaiming that forgiveness solves all issues, but honestly, these are people who have never experienced trauma. Not saying that people with trauma can't forgive - it's that trauma is something that is deeply rooted, very painful, and has affected lives. You are never, EVER obligated to forgive an abuser - I see no reason why you should. A lot of people say "forgive others not because they deseve it but because you deserve peace" and I'm here like...forgiving an individual doesn't necessarily bestow peace of mind, especially since it's said person in the first place that caused distress.

Forgiving is really hard to a lot of people. Sure, maybe people who suggest you forgive have good intentions and say that you should forgive so that you can put your mind at rest and move on but...that's not how that works with PTSD. Maybe with small events that might help, but not trauma.

If you feel like forgiveness is like condoning actions, then that is completely valid. You aren't obligated to forgive. Not even if said person appologizes, you're still not obligated to. I remember telling this to someone else, I'll say it here too: plenty of people refuse to forgive, and that doesn't make them bad people. It just means they don't put up with any bullshit :)
 
Best I have figured out from that concept of forgiveness is that it is for you to release, as best you can. Bumper sticker 'Your Anger Becomes You." No, not about reconcile or absolution, just best to try not let it eat you up.
 
I have researched and read every argument and study i can find and I still come to the same conclusion that to forgive what was done to me and forgive the people who did it, is the same as saying 'what you did is ok' and its just not.
I don't believe that is forgiveness at all.

Saying "what you did was ok" is not forgiveness. It is condoning wrong doing. It's not right. It is at best being a bystander, and at worst, it's being complicit in abuse.

If what they did was ok, or someone says it is ok, then forgiveness does not apply. At all. Because what they did was ok.

But if something is not ok, then forgiveness may apply.

I know you have read studies, but let's back this up. Look at this definition of forgiveness: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive
None of the definitions of forgiveness have anything to do with saying a wrong act was ok or not a problem.

Think about forgiving a financial debt. It means that the debt is no longer held against the person. That's it. It doesn't mean the money was suddenly paid. It doesn't mean loaning them more money. It doesn't mean saying the debt was not really a debt. It's simply no longer looking for that other person to pay up.

I struggle with forgiveness myself, really deeply. A common quote about forgiveness is that "unforgiveness is like drinking a poison ourselves hoping it will harm another person."

I can see where someone in recovery from trauma can get stuck on being unforgiving and seeking revenge from the abuser, or pay back. I think that in some of those cases, forgiveness can help in trauma recovery. It's not about the other person, the perpetrator, but the person who was victimized and their own freedom.

I think we should report the crimes endured, stand up against the wrong, get away from the abuser, seek restitution if that is fitting and possible, etc. Call out abuse as abuse and hold people/perpetrators accountable. I think it's possible, perhaps even important for some people, to be very angry about the abuse, and still forgive. It's a very complex matter, and hard to achieve.

I think forgiveness might be something to consider doing when someone begins to destroy themselves with hate of the other person. No longer seeking payment is not the same as saying it was ok or that the anger at them goes away.

I think forgiveness in terms of trauma has little to do with the other person, but how we deal with what to do with ourselves after the trauma happens. It's about our own hearts.

That all being said, I stink at forgiveness. I have moments where honestly, I kind of want revenge. I don't want to hurt the perpetrators, but in my heart, I want them to make up for what they did to me. (Which is quite impossible.) I want them to fix what they did to me. I want someone, anyone to make it different. (I know stupid and childish thinking.)

For a period of time, I did seek out for one particular abuser to make up for what they did to me, and I consumed myself, and it didn't lead to much good. Now, I am trying to find that healthy place where yeah, I was traumatized, it was wrong, never going to let those people back in my life again, going to protect myself in every way possible, going to feel the anger, sadness and horrible pain and work through it, but not spin myself out, make my own self feel like crap, seeking for them to make up for what they did to me. Which to me, is forgiveness.

Edited to add:
For trauma survivors, I think it is cruel to tell them to just forgive a person. It often is said in an invalidating way, like "you need to just forgive them" as if the problem was a lack of forgiveness, and not the actual trauma that happened, or like it will make everything all ok. That's just not how it works. Forgiveness or not, I believe that being angry at a perpetrator is a stage some trauma survivors need to go through, to reclaim their voice, their rights, their sense of self, and to call out the wrong of the person(s) who hurt them.
 
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Quote......." I cannot for the life of me see how Forgiving is 'not' the same as condoning...its got be me really wound up"

I'm with you on that one, I have a situation where I will never forgive the people who wronged me, cheated and stole from me!

All that from people I thought I could trust, and treated as family, their betrayal cut me to the bone, I will never forgive them, no matter what.

It eats me up, and I just can't stop thinking about it, no matter how much I try?
 
I took the forgiveness route... because if I didn't I was gonna die from alcoholism. Understand why it would feel like forgiving would be condoning. But for me it was a typical thinking pattern to heap up a bunch of stuff on top of one thing and turn it into something else entirely. Of course I don't condone what happened/what was done to me... but it was eating me up inside and I was literally killing myself with booze. I had to do something different and radical. So I got sober and studied. It took me a while, but I can and did forgive. It didn't magically make anything better... more like opened my mind to other avenues for treatment possibilities and I was able to lay down the defensiveness enough to get the help I needed to begin to recover.

I was really angry and hurt. I resisted for a really long time. Then I stopped trying to do it my way and started doing it as it was suggested. It got better.
 
There some great answers and opinions there. I am sort a open to the dimmest possibility that one day, probably in the distant future that I 'might' feel different and change my mind on the whole forgiving thing...but as it is now. I can't and don't want to forgive them. I see what people are saying about it not being the same as condoning, but the lines between the 2 or so thin is its almost impossible for me to separate them.

Where i am at the moment, forgiving someone who does not deserve my forgiveness whether it is for me or not, still feels like saying its ok, ' you did all those things to me, but its ok cos I forgive you'. Forgiveness needs to be earned, all 3 of them are in Jail for what they did to me, my brother and others, not one of them showed any remorse at all. In fact 1 who is a relation of ours, even bends the rules, by smuggling post out to anther relative, trying make out like he is our best buddy...there is no remorse, no regret, no willingness to understand how he and the others destroyed our lives. I honestly in my heart at this point do not believe he deserves to be forgiven...

Its very hard...but thanks all of you for your thoughts...
 
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