News George Zimmermann Case And Trial

[Nicolette]

Closing this thread as it is becoming argumentative. Sadly people make their opinions personal attacks.

Mod warn me until the cows come home. If I'm going to be warned while someone rants and uses racist language..Maybe, you should think about how you're modding.

I also recommend you don't drag others into your disagreements while disrespecting their jobs. Please don't challenge staff in such a way as it will be to your detriment.

 

[anthony]

Staff will thread ban anyone who wishes to insight arguments. State your opinions as opinions and DO NOT attack or defend based on your opinion.

 

[The Albatross]

[DLMURL="http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/aclu_letter_to_ag_holder_re_gzimmerman_case.pdf"]ACLU Letter to Attorney General Eric Holder re: George Zimmerman Case[/DLMURL]

 

[The Albatross]

Washington Times: HARPER: A tepid Trayvon protest, despite what you read

Media hyped, astroturfed.... a straw man to distract the John and Jane Q Public from the real scandals and pressing issues of a troubled administration. What it did do is advance gun control issues and it negatively impacted public perception of race relations. An NBC and Wall Street Journal poll: [DLMURL="http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/23/19644475-americas-race-relations-take-hit-after-zimmerman-verdict-nbc-newswsj-poll-finds?lite"]America's race relations take hit after Zimmerman verdict, NBC News/WSJ poll finds[/DLMURL]

As the trial is over.and the protesting Dream Defenders at my Governor's office is not the topic for this thread and the protests are fading I expect this thread has run it's course. I don't expect punitive action for Angela Corey as Rick Scott has made pretty plain his position on her. The Orlando Sentinel even profiled her for her stellar performance... which leaves me grumbling a bit. Any Department of Justice investigation would be off topic too, as would subsequent Zimmerman lawsuits against NBC for defamation or other reasons. So... for me, this media circus has advanced the "progressive" narrative, kept the attention of the "average voter" away from more important issues, and negatively affected public perception in our country about race relations.

Yesterday Jay Carney talked about "phony scandals"... this case though is not, sadly the one he meant. But most certainly, it was phony and the flames were enthusiastically fanned by a certain segment of society that I personally find destructive.

So this issue for me is now a "dead horse"... but I am one of those who like to see behind the curtain on the people involved in the hype. I have found what I am looking for and don't need to see any more. SEIU/ACORN/Occupy astotrufers and all manner of activists and race baiters (including Eric Holder and Obama). As my Presidents has his roots in community organizing... I'm not at all surprised by his statements, though gravely disappointed and dissatisfied in his administrations governance.

I do not believe the Department of Justice should pursue this case. I believe justice has been served, and so does the ACLU.

Not one poster has refuted any fact I have presented or chosen to discuss it. I find that to be the most interesting aspect of this and other discussions. When presented with evidence, instead of presenting evidence that counters or contradicts... I get my character questioned. I don't mind, I don't proffer and opinion unless I've got shoulders big enough to carry it.

It has been my habit to put under scrutiny what is reported by all media outlets for a very long time. I think readers or viewers wanting to be informed are best served doing their own investigation on hot current event topics... unless they find that they are genuinely not interested in a topic. I no longer accept things at face value, and I don't think any of us Americans should. Not anymore. The rules have changed and "journalistic/reporter integrity" is an oxymoron.

 

[Pietro]

Personally this is a case of STUPID!

I agree with your assessment. Lots of stupidity here.

As you said, Zimmerman should have stayed put. He wasn't qualified or competent to confront someone, either verbally or physically, and he was advised to stand down by the 911 operator. Regardless of anything that occurred thereafter, these factors, alone, were enough to convict for manslaughter, even with the "Stand Your Ground" law in place.

Unfortunately, the prosecution overreached. I don't know how they ever thought they could get a 2nd degree murder conviction -- perhaps they acted under pressure? But, given this, they were almost doomed to fail.

The race issue is very tricky. For those who are not themselves minorities, it seems silly when both individuals involved in the incident are part of minority groups. However, this assumes that all minority groups get along with one another -- which they don't. Hispanics and African-Americans have a history of dislike and/or distrust of one another, in some parts of the US. Even touchier is the issue of "light" vs. "dark" skin, since Zimmerman apparently is partly of Afro-Peruvian descent. Thus, if you identify as "African-American", it simply looks to some like a case of "not again".

I don't think the entire African-American community feels this way. In fact, not even the majority. Many believe that Zimmerman should have been convicted, but don't believe that race had much to do with the shooting or the trial verdict. As Albatross and others said, the media has done its part in blowing this aspect of the case way out of proportion.

As for Trayvon Martin, I don't think anyone has claimed he was a saint. However, if an un-uniformed stranger with a gun and no badge confronts you, how would you react? And if Martin *had* grabbed the gun and killed Zimmerman, would he not have, himself, had grounds to claim self-defense? (This, of course, depends on who confronted who first.) Such cases are never simple. And sadly, because dead men tell no tales, the benefit of the doubt automatically favors the survivor.

 

[Pietro]

I do not believe the Department of Justice should pursue this case. I believe justice has been served, and so does the ACLU.

Agreed -- no justification for this. The trial was conducted properly, even if many believe (including me) that the prosecution overreached trying to get 2nd degree murder.

The DOJ is likely just giving lip-service to the issue to appease the angry masses.

 

[The Albatross]

As for Trayvon Martin, I don't think anyone has claimed he was a saint. However, if an un-uniformed stranger with a gun and no badge confronts you, how would you react?.

Asked a direct question and/or called 911 and possibly "escaped and evaded" to get my butt to a safe place. I'll tell you what I would not do. Attempt to assault somebody.

 

[Pietro]

I'll tell you what I would not do. Attempt to assault somebody.

I think it depends on where you're from. In some places, "escape" is not an option.

There are things I'm not clear on. When did Martin see the gun, and is this even known? But, mostly, who confronted whom first? The latter is the real key to whether Zimmerman was in the wrong or not.

 

[The Albatross]

It wasn't known until he was on top of Zimmerman and either beating him or bashing his head on the ground. Zimmerman was carrying a lawful Florida concealed weapon by permit. It was a travesty of errors, don't get me wrong, but this case had, in my opinion... absolutely no reason to be such a media hyped national event.

Martin perhaps chose wrongly a confrontational stance where by, when he chose to assault his "cracker" stalker he made a tragic error and it prematurely ended his life. It didn't have to go down this way, trust me. I've been there and got the girl scout badge (stalked by a stranger).

 

[circe47]

In summation? BOTH were stupid and if they'd had had just a little bit less testosterone and bravado- they would both be in a much better place than they are right now.

Do I think Martin was a scared little boy afraid of being sexed up by Zimmerman? Not one bit. If he HAD been afraid, it doesn't make sense that he'd provoke the person he was afraid of. I believe that if Zimmerman had been unarmed, my bet is that Trayvon would at this very moment be ROTFLHAO at the notion of some old man getting the better of him. He'd also probably be stupidly bragging to his friends about having cracked some old dude's egg on the pavement.....or, on the run and hiding out.

Do I think Zimmerman stalked and murdered Trayvon? Not one bit. Murder implies premeditation and malice aforethought. Neither of those criteria were present in this case. It was a tragic, one-time incident that ended badly for the witnessed physical aggressor in a fight. Was he stupid? Probably. But- his stupidity both saved and doomed him at the same time. He will always be looking over his shoulder and will not be able to sleep very well at night for having killed another person.

I SEE it ALL very clearly. Like Abatross says.........there is so much more going on that is way worse than just another tragic altercation between TWO idiots who did not THINK before they reacted.

I don't know why this is all so hard to understand..........:(

 

[dms]

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand either. It's pretty simple to me. There is a dead kid who was walking home minding his own business and a murderer who was told to stand down by the police! Hmm? it's pretty clear... I would hate to have somebody call my dead son a "idiot". And I think that a persons perception is based on their reality. or the " FACTS" that they choose to believe. There are many people in the world who beat you over the head with their (ALWAYS) negative borderline racist offensive "FACTS". Is it really that important to WIN a discussion?

 

[BloomInWinter]

I think calling a dead child names based upon whatever one has heard third-hand is cruel. I think vilifying a dead child as somehow deserving of a painful, frightening death is reprehensible.

I think any time a child's choices in life are used to bash his character publicly where grieving friends and relatives are subject to ongoing psychological trauma is deeply, profoundly hurtful.

I think wasting one moment of my life justifying whatever I think was in the killer's head is a convenient way for me to not look at my own issues.

I think a dead boy is a tragedy. I think racism is real. I think I have no idea what it's like to live life black in the U.S. I think the arrest record of the man who killed the boy is not a record I'd be willing to ignore when hiring someone for a volunteer job.

I think the main stream American media is shallow, sensationalistic, unethical, untrustworthy, and follows whatever seems to be grabbing people's attention.

Having started a neighborhood watch, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we'd have never approved of a person with previous arrests to be a part of it, much less to be armed. But the facts of the case aren't an issue to me nearly so much as why a dead child's life seems to be ok fodder for people to blame, shame, and hate on him.

I sure made a lot of choices as a child that weren't healthy, safe, or showed the ability to predict likely outcomes. How could I not? I was a child. If one of those choices caused a series of events to end with my death, the idea that people would pick my troubled, hurting self apart and feel perfectly justified doing so is what troubles me the most about this discussion.

I can't think of a single child I believe deserves pain, fear, hatred, death. Not one. Certainly not a child whose body is laying on the pavement with a bag of skittles still in his hand.