I Wonder What Made Me This Way

[Hope4Now]

"I don't have the right to live."

and still I don't want to believe any of it is real.

I never put that together before. But so much makes sense in that context. When a shaman did a soul retrieval on me one of the parts was a newborn or unborn baby that was very reluctant to return. I've known all this for a long time, but never put two and two together before.

Wow and wow for you, @sun seeker. So much of what you write here resonates with me! Isn't it the most bizarre feeling when suddenly things you knew already you suddenly know in a whole different way?

What a lot of masks I've worn. I feel I am at a monumental point of change, and no one around me will notice the difference but there is a revolution going on inside me. Realizing that this is actually my life and I can choose to focus on what is true for me, not what the textbooks or the therapists or my parents or school or anyone else says is supposed to be true for me. I'd don't know quite what to make of this.

Just be with it. You don't have to solve it right now. A few weeks ago, I wrote a post very similar to what you said. This is a breakthrough moment for you.

I'm torn - wanting to heal and have the best experience possible while I'm here on this earth, and at the same time I'd so much rather live in a dream world. I'm not sure how to bridge that gap.

I wish I knew. Just know you're not alone on this path even though it is a parallel one. We can shout to each other over the gaps!

It's difficult to know where to start when you're trying to create a whole new self with so little to go on and no sense of what is normal, but I think it will be worth it in the end. I know what you mean about not knowing what to do with owning your life... I guess we will just have to make it up as we go :)

:wideeyed: What? You mean there's choice??!!:woot:

 

[sun seeker]

You guys are so wonderful. :)

I am taking this slowly, digesting everyone's comments and my own responses. I'll reply to some now and come back to the rest later.

I tried and tried to put my quotes in the order they were posted but for some reason this quote insists on being first. So be it, maybe there's a reason.

The blissful time that most experience in the womb was not mine to be had. So when the shaman and I went back and did soul retrievals there was no time to ground to when she spoke about finding a time that I felt safe.

You had some pretty extreme pre-birth experiences as I recall, so this makes a lot of sense. I also have trouble finding the memory of safety to use as a resource. Finally I came up with a memory from a past life. Whether it's real or not, it's something to return to, though I've been having trouble connecting with it lately.

I don't know if anyone is interested in homeopathy, but there is a whole class of remedies made from the milk of a variety of mammals that has been invented fairly recently. Two of them are from human milk, prepared in different ways. I read about it in some detail and wanted to try one of these. The picture has to do with a lack of nurturing. A friend of mine is a homeopath and she sent me some, although for some reason I never understood she insisted on the remedy that wasn't my first choice. I took it and wasn't aware of it helping, but I think for it to be most effective a person has to not be taking any allopathic medications at the same time, and that wasn't possible.

I would also add to the idea of pre-birth trauma the fact that when your mom was freaking out you were exposed to all of the physical stress responses in her body.

The family therapist I'm working with said much the same thing to me last week when I told her this story. "Oh, well, that would explain the anxiety." It seemed obvious to her.

I think having really early trauma adds a lot of difficulty because there's no sense of what we would have been like without the trauma.

True. There is a deep sense of shame that goes with it because how do you know what is your personality and what is the trauma? There is no control group. Just thinking through this now... that is probably some of why I don't feel I have a core identity. I reinvent myself over and over in the image of other people partly because I keep trying to find that essence of goodness and self worth that no one reflected to me so long ago. I know that will never work though, and that I have to build that sense within myself, but the building blocks are so few and far between. Just a fleeting sense here and there of "me" as good, as someone I want to be.

Arggh... my quotes just refuse to go where I try to put them. More in another post.

 

[sun seeker]

Right then, as I was saying...

I think the answer for me was so that I wasn't looking for any external validation for my being wanted.

You know, the last time someone asked me what I thought my purpose in this lifetime was, something very much like what you just said was the first thing that came out of my mouth. It might take the rest of my life. It's SO much work.

You were a large part of that whole rant I had about god and the universe as I recall.

Yes. The main thing I remember saying was that I have never stopped believing in God, but a lot of the time I don't feel worthy of God's attention. I long for that feeling of connection, of an interchange between spirit and myself, which I have sometimes had but not nearly enough. To experience myself as co-creator. (I know I've changed vocabulary midstream here, but there is a reason. Spirit, to me, includes angels, dead people, the quantum field, and so on.) Losing that sense of connection is terrifying, and it's at my lowest points that it seems to vanish. Although I did have a really cool prophetic dream last night that ended up helping someone, so maybe the connection is coming back...?

Maybe reading this type of thing would help you too?

Thanks @ghotiff. What is the name of the book?

I read somewhere that these implicit memories are pretty reliable, more than the kind our adult minds form. But they don't feel as real because we don't make sense of them well...they don't resemble "normal" memories.

Thank you for sharing this, it's very validating. I have a similar experience. This is where somatic therapies are so valuable, I think.

I have one recovered memory that is absolutely horrifying, and extremely confusing. I don't want to believe it's real, obviously, and at the same time I am very careful not to say much about it in case it turns out to be my imagination. But I did work on this memory once using somatic breathwork. As I said earlier (I think, but maybe that was somewhere else) what came up while doing that was dramatic. There is no way I could have made up the reaction I had. And yet, my rational mind keeps trying to explain it away. When there was no way I could say any longer that there wasn't any trauma, I started wondering whether I had made up a story to explain the feelings I was having but the real trauma connected to those feelings was something else.

I know some people say it is a moot point and the focus should be on releasing the trauma, not identifying it, and I see the value in that, but on the other hand I do want to know whether someone really did the things I "remembered". For myself, and for anyone similar things might still be happening to. If it's my imagination, I want to know that too. Because of the nature of the memory I'll never know who was involved, but whether it was really part of my history? I want to know.

I'm getting bolder lately about what I will put in writing, and it's scaring me a bit. I want to make it very clear that I am not accusing anyone I know, that I am just trying to figure this out but not blaming anyone.

I need to take a break, will come back to this later.

 

[shimmerz]

so maybe the connection is coming back...?

Or never lost. Perhaps just a reminder.....

that I am just trying to figure this out but not blaming anyone.

I don't think any of us feel like you are blaming anyone. Besides, we don't know them so who cares???? Sorry for the glibness, but it is true! Be bold! I love bold personally! Don't hold yourself back. Say it. If it isn't right and you realize that along the way then say so.

My T was really good at getting me to trust my body memories. If I felt like I needed to die he said, then I must have felt that feeling before. The body can't just 'make up' feelings. I can't pretend to be a psychopath for instance, because I have no frame of reference. So I trust. This disconnection comes from somewhere. Does it matter where? Now, how to connect?

 

[Hope4Now]

I have one recovered memory that is absolutely horrifying, and extremely confusing. I don't want to believe it's real, obviously, and at the same time I am very careful not to say much about it in case it turns out to be my imagination. But I did work on this memory once using somatic breathwork. As I said earlier (I think, but maybe that was somewhere else) what came up while doing that was dramatic. There is no way I could have made up the reaction I had. And yet, my rational mind keeps trying to explain it away. When there was no way I could say any longer that there wasn't any trauma, I started wondering whether I had made up a story to explain the feelings I was having but the real trauma connected to those feelings was something else.

I don't know if this will help you or not. I know it has helped me to know that there are other people who have experienced the same things and are struggling with the same concerns. I could have written what you just wrote. I am still struggling with doubts about a recovered memory from early childhood, but it is hard to deny the reactions I have physically when I work on this stuff. I share all the doubts you have. Parts of me know the memory is real, but other parts refuse to accept it. I, too, would like to know for sure, but I don't think any more detail is going to come.

There is no control group. Just thinking through this now... that is probably some of why I don't feel I have a core identity. I reinvent myself over and over in the image of other people partly because I keep trying to find that essence of goodness and self worth that no one reflected to me so long ago. I know that will never work though, and that I have to build that sense within myself, but the building blocks are so few and far between. Just a fleeting sense here and there of "me" as good, as someone I want to be.

I have read quite a bit about attachment theory. For those of us with pre-natal/early trauma, it is a huge issue because we don't develop a core identity. I have reinvented myself repeatedly in my life. There is no "before" of trauma to anchor us. We have to develop a secure attachment ourselves. And, apparently the way to do it is to attach to one's therapist (if he/she is worthy of that :)). I am in the process of doing this. Parts of me hate it and parts of me are so desperate for it (yes I have disorganized attachment). I think it is the first time in my life I have ever trusted anyone with most of who I am/what it is like to be me. I am beginning to realize that the more I attach to him, the more confidence I start to develop in myself. I suppose it is like growing up all over again, except this time with a person who accepts and mirrors and is kind.

Please be bold in what you say! Not only does it help develop confidence in your own experience as it unfolds and shifts, it helps others too. Thank you for what you share!

 

[sun seeker]

My mom has no memory of her childhood or mine.

It sounds like she was very dissociated. There would have to be a lack of attachment just because of that, even if she was trying to be a good mother.

Does anyone in your family know what your very early years were like?

My connection with my family is almost zero. I really want to reconcile with my mother, and we are working with a family therapist each separately until I feel safe enough so we can attend together. But my mother because of who she is, paints a much rosier picture than the reality I remember. That invalidation is one of the problems I have being with her. Out of my older siblings I have no contact at all with two of them, and very minimal contact with the other. My father is dead. So it's pretty much down to my own memory.

A new theme in therapy is working to create new body experiences, knowing I maybe can't rewire or rewrite everything, but I don't have to be totally stuck or held back within this frame of negative experience.

That sounds very interesting. Creating new body memories. Can you share more about how that works?

Just know you're not alone on this path even though it is a parallel one. We can shout to each other over the gaps!

Helloooooo there! How are things over there on your side of the gap? :)

I don't think any of us feel like you are blaming anyone. Besides, we don't know them so who cares????

Please be bold in what you say! Not only does it help develop confidence in your own experience as it unfolds and shifts, it helps others too. Thank you for what you share!

The problem isn't with any of you. It's a combination of things. One is in case any of my family ever read this and figure out who I am, because with what I've put in this thread added to some other things I've made that pretty obvious. I want them to know they don't stand accused. Another is about taking care of myself. It's partly because of the split reality in my own mind that confuses me so much, and partly about the process of clearing up the past and apologizing for any ways I've hurt others. I know I've said and done some hurtful things when I was more emotionally reactive, and I'm being very careful not to go there again. I want more and more to be scrupulously honest and fair, and not to say anything that might hurt anyone unless I am 100% sure. It's about integrity, only it's complicated because there are so many shades of grey and places where two or more contradictory things are true at the same time. It's also about how suddenly and intensely I can feel hatred for myself if I step over my self-imposed bounds of conduct. I don't know if that makes sense, it's confusing to me too. But one thing I'm sure of is it isn't about you guys.

On the other hand, I've been more open on this thread than ever before here, and I'm getting a lot out of it. As I said, it's confusing.

This disconnection comes from somewhere. Does it matter where? Now, how to connect?

This is true. I've been thinking about this a lot. I keep bringing myself back to... well, to myself. What is real for me right now? There is such an emptiness, it's hard to stay with for long. I gave someone else the advice recently to reconnect through the senses, because our present experience is sensory and that's how we get to know ourselves. Maybe I need to listen to my own advice. But I'm so used to the dream world I spend most of my time in, and it feels safer. I've done this as long as I can remember.

I'm getting an image of how you would gain the trust of a little bird, sitting quietly with some food in your hand waiting for it to come closer, careful not to scare it away. I think I need to approach my commitment to being present like that. Slowly and very gently.

I don't know if this will help you or not. I know it has helped me to know that there are other people who have experienced the same things and are struggling with the same concerns. I could have written what you just wrote. I am still struggling with doubts about a recovered memory from early childhood, but it is hard to deny the reactions I have physically when I work on this stuff. I share all the doubts you have.

It helps a lot. Thank you. Later I think I will post a thread about this question specifically. The convolutions my mind goes through! If it were anyone else, I'd believe them. It's just me that I don't trust.

For those of us with pre-natal/early trauma, it is a huge issue because we don't develop a core identity. I have reinvented myself repeatedly in my life.

Yup. I've used that exact same term. Reinvented myself. At least now I know when I'm inventing, whereas I used to believe it every time.

And, apparently the way to do it is to attach to one's therapist (if he/she is worthy of that :)).

Yikes. Yes, I can see how that would be true, and at the same time it feels so threatening. There is a level of closeness (to anyone) that triggers me so I go right into that infantile panic, don't-have-the-right-to-exist mode. I guess it's being willing to go there and being accepted while there that will help that attachment to happen, right?

Thank you so much everyone, for helping me figure this out. You guys are the best.

 

[Hope4Now]

Helloooooo there! How are things over there on your side of the gap? :)

Haaallllooo over there! Things okay here. No current crises. Will be one tonight. I'm not looking forward to it! (Taking my mother out).

But my mother because of who she is, paints a much rosier picture than the reality I remember. That invalidation is one of the problems I have being with her.

Yes! :wtf::hungover::notworthy::sour:. It is partly because of my mother that I doubt my own reality. She says of my current problems: "Well, you've brought this all on yourself, you know that, don't you?" and "I can't understand what you're so stressed about" and "You had a perfect childhood." :wideeyed:

I'm getting an image of how you would gain the trust of a little bird, sitting quietly with some food in your hand waiting for it to come closer, careful not to scare it away. I think I need to approach my commitment to being present like that. Slowly and very gently.

Yes. It is very scary to be present and in one's body I'm finding. Can tolerate for short periods when I can get there.

There is a level of closeness (to anyone) that triggers me so I go right into that infantile panic, don't-have-the-right-to-exist mode. I guess it's being willing to go there and being accepted while there that will help that attachment to happen, right?

Me too. It has taken 2x week for a long while now and it is starting to happen. I'm starting to internalize his presence. It's weird actually and freaks me out and makes parts of me very scared for all kinds of reasons, but it is also good...

 

[sun seeker]

I'm not looking forward to it! (Taking my mother out).

This may be a dumb question, but... do you have to?

It is partly because of my mother that I doubt my own reality. She says of my current problems: "Well, you've brought this all on yourself, you know that, don't you?" and "I can't understand what you're so stressed about" and "You had a perfect childhood." :wideeyed:

Mine is more subtle. The denial and avoidance tactics are mind-boggling. First, I'll bring something up that is important to me and she will ignore me and literally walk away, which is one of my biggest triggers. Then if I persist, she becomes passive-aggressive and huffy, saying things like "well, I'm not some kind of monster", still without addressing the problem. When she finally had to concede that I have serious problems, she started trying to force-feed me solutions while still not recognizing having had anything to do with the origin of the problems. Then when that didn't go over, she started apologizing for little things that I don't even remember while still ignoring the really big things, as if to imply that the whole problem is that I'm so sensitive that it's these trivial things that caused my problems. Then when THAT didn't work, she said we needed to get a therapist to help us sort it all out. Whether that will get us anywhere I don't know, because I still haven't gotten to a place where I feel safe enough to sit in the same room with her and risk being badly triggered.

It is very scary to be present and in one's body I'm finding.

Is that where it begins, do you think? Paying attention to physical sensations and sensory input? When I try to connect to a sense of self there is nothing there, but my body, I can feel.

 

[Hope4Now]

do you have to?

Ah, there's the question. I am still enmeshed after all these years. Yes, I do have a choice. I am the only person in her life and she is very old. So I talk to her a few times a week and take her out once a week. I decided it was the lesser burden on me to see her than to cut her out of my life.

I still haven't gotten to a place where I feel safe enough to sit in the same room with her and risk being badly triggered.

It is kind of cool that you are both interested in working something out. I hope it can happen for you. Are you doing your own trauma therapy too, or just working with the family person? (Sorry if you already said this...I have holes in my brain these days). It's also good that you are able to set boundaries with her that keep you safe. Although it sounds as if you do communicate with her in troubling ways too. Someone suggested to me that I imagine that I'm enclosed in a huge, impenetrable shield. That helps sometimes.

s that where it begins, do you think? Paying attention to physical sensations and sensory input?

Yes. Mindful movement has done a lot for me to start connecting with my body. It took close to a year of it until I found my SELF a few weeks ago, for a short time :wideeyed::woot:. Transformational! Working on re-connecting to that whenever I can, which is still not very often...but it comes through the body and sensory awareness for me.

 

[sun seeker]

So I talk to her a few times a week and take her out once a week. I decided it was the lesser burden on me to see her than to cut her out of my life.

I understand. No judgement here, I'm just wondering if there is a way to take some of the stress out of your life.

Are you doing your own trauma therapy too, or just working with the family person?

Yes, both. I don't know how long it will take before I feel able to talk to my mother. When I think about it, I literally feel sick.

It's also good that you are able to set boundaries with her that keep you safe. Although it sounds as if you do communicate with her in troubling ways too.

The boundaries are hard to be clear on because it's all so very confusing. But yes, I try. There has been no contact except by letter and a very occasional go-between for over a year. Like you, for some time I felt I should keep even superficial contact going, but there came a point when the stress got to be too much and I just couldn't go on pretending everything was fine when it so very much wasn't. At that point I went down to letters. It's when the letters weren't getting anywhere that she suggested the therapist. She has already lost one of her children for all practical purposes, one of my sisters who has refused any contact for about sixteen years now, and I think she is motivated to keep from going down the same road with me. It's just that as far as I can see thus far, she is still going through the motions while trying to avoid actually taking any responsibility. The therapist is very good though, not pushing me at all, and says she will work on teaching my mother some of the skills she is lacking. Personal effectiveness training, I think she called it. That my mother is even willing to try this at her age is pretty remarkable.

It took close to a year of it until I found my SELF a few weeks ago, for a short time :wideeyed::woot:. Transformational!

That sounds like a very special meeting. I didn't know it could be that clear. Now I'm looking forward to that day. (Now I'm starting to worry... I hope I like myself when we finally meet!)

 

[Hope4Now]

I hope I like myself when we finally meet!)

:roflmao:
If you don't, it's a sure sign you found a false self, or some other part is in the way. Seriously. I thought I'd found mine a while back, but it turns out it was a part.

 

[Chava]

very careful not to say much about it in case it turns out to be my imagination. But I did work on this memory once using somatic breathwork. As I said earlier (I think, but maybe that was somewhere else) what came up while doing that was dramatic. There is no way I could have made up the reaction I had. And yet, my rational mind keeps trying to explain it away.

I also feel like I can't say much about some trauma since I don't know if I can trust all the unusual sensations, feelings, and bits of memory. If I put it into words, it becomes more real. But really, your mind has much more imagination than your body. Implicit memories are usually pretty accurate...our bodies can hold the truth while our minds distort meanings in all kinds of ways (memories too).

Just be patient and stick with that weird edge of being open and not assigning meaning right away, but also knowing that what your body knows is real. So it might start to form a coherent story. I told some part of this after it formed, but it was not like a normal story with lots of detail. It was more like I knew I had too many negative experiences, that this person hurt me (and good ideas of how), and that I developed these negative associations. The unexpected part was how much better I felt after that fell together and I acknowledged it (to therapist and anonymous here). But in no obvious way has this therapy or healing worked out like I would have imagined, or fast enough. But in that way I have learned more about patience and all of this stuff as process vs simple answer.

I don't even talk about traumas I do remember much. It doesn't help me too much. On this forum I find myself talking more about symptoms. I've told my therapist about the traumas I remember more clearly but even when I know they are real, it's been hard to know which one did what to me. The way I was assaulted, for example, triggered something else that was older. I instantly wanted to die (tried to make my eating disorder work better for me but swallowed a bottle of pills about a week later). So what part matters? It's really hard making all the connections but it's been helpful to make some and see how traumas have built on past traumas.

Logic gets in the way of this process. I'm a very logical adult and it's been a huge roadblock at times. But I haven't been able to understand the bubble I have around myself. If I learn to listen to my body's story, it is something seemingly illogical, like I am deeply afraid of getting close to people and being bodily hurt by them. Doesn't matter if I "trust" them on a reasonable adult level. But also some really weird stuff like my invisibility. That's better...but my separate self felt invisible to abuser, disappeared...and I think I have a long pattern of not believing I'm totally real to others and that others aren't totally real to me....even if I "know" they are, I operate out of a really deep flaw in this system. More thoughts on that but I'm rambling. Sounds like maybe some of your triggers relate to early invalidation. For me that has messed up my sense of being real within relationships. I do feel "real" on my own though (hard not to continually reinforce my isolation!!)