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Is This Me Being Triggered....
- Post starter shimmerz
- Start date
- Status
laurainalameda
Bronze Member
I think what bothered me was that no mention was made of the situation in the thread. It was just sort of out of nowhere. When people have their own complex beliefs, I find it innoffensive, and just part of who they are. Everyone is different, and it's nice when people can get comfort somewhere
Recovery4Me
VIP Member
For many whom have done Bible Outreach Programs for Christianity (door to door, ect)...there are patterned stanzas within a chorus of thought to embrace the crux, Jesus Christ, thus avoid denominational theology bog down. Putting Christ, Holy Spirit and God first by the person offering- is supposed to display their submission to the Trinity's Headship and at times - can sound a bit "canned". Leaning on the scripture instead of one’s self (is sometimes) for Christians an act of holy faith as well as courage. So perhaps the sentence in and of itself was an act of courage on the part of the Christian to try to assist…may be even in love. Times change…outreach is now awkward as well as sadly dangerous. The backlash can be fatal globally.
In real life, there have been occasions where I have uttered proverbs and on the board, I am prone to use references. As there are several thousands of denominations depending on who is doing the tallying, lumping God & Christian ethos is tricky. (I believe on purpose...lol)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
At any rate…we can trigger both positive and negative no matter what the content or context with PTSD sometimes as the crow flies. I do not think it is a matter of sensitives at this day and age but a matter of tolerance, while trying to trust each other on the board. But then…I have been given much forgiveness for my jarring post by many members, staff and owners of the board with my attempts to console.
(((hugs to you Shim...sorry that you felt that pain)))
In real life, there have been occasions where I have uttered proverbs and on the board, I am prone to use references. As there are several thousands of denominations depending on who is doing the tallying, lumping God & Christian ethos is tricky. (I believe on purpose...lol)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
At any rate…we can trigger both positive and negative no matter what the content or context with PTSD sometimes as the crow flies. I do not think it is a matter of sensitives at this day and age but a matter of tolerance, while trying to trust each other on the board. But then…I have been given much forgiveness for my jarring post by many members, staff and owners of the board with my attempts to console.
(((hugs to you Shim...sorry that you felt that pain)))
Ed Norton
Diamond Member
Just curious about context, is there a link to the original thread? It seems like he's talking to a Christian.
- Post starter
- #17
Ed, if you click the arrow to the right of the original quote, it will get you to the thread. Here is the static link though....
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/stopping-suicidal-actions-while-dissociated.57594/#post-923918
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/stopping-suicidal-actions-while-dissociated.57594/#post-923918
I read it as religiously put wish of helpful guidance in life and extrapolating on well received advice, and where it's best sought.
Which obviously won't click with non-religious people or those abused by religion, but the intent behind it & phrasing of it to the best of my ability to tell didn't seem any malevolent.
Which obviously won't click with non-religious people or those abused by religion, but the intent behind it & phrasing of it to the best of my ability to tell didn't seem any malevolent.
- Post starter
- #19
I don't think it was malevolent. I think it was pushing.... and that is what I am trying to sort out here. I have had a couple of people come up to me recently and 'push' religion on me - face to face. I find it offensive. It feels like it is a boundary issue to me.
I am trying to sort this out authentically, so please forgive my keeping on with this.
Myself, I believe in non mainstream stuff. Universal stuff. I don't walk up to people (or post) that if only they believed in Huna and the Universal laws and so on, that their PTSD would be gone, or life problems would be eradicated or eased substantially.
I believe that it insinuates when someone talks about how if I let God into my life my life would be better, that, well, it is them telling me I have control over my experience and I am doing shit wrong because I don't believe what they do. Boundaries.....
Why is it that Christians are just 'well meaning' when they push their views and Universalists are 'nuts'?
What if I had posted:
Do you know that your Higher Self exits? Do you know the Archangels love you with an everlasting love?
Ask them to come into your life and rescue you! They will, trust them with your life, as they are trustworthy and reliable.
Calling on the archangels for you!
Not certain that would go over so well here. It becomes a 'non opinion' and more of a pushing one's views on another, as far as I can see it (although that may be skewed).
As opposed to,
I have my spiritual values that help me. There is work still to be done beyond that .... but my beliefs are a big part of my healing.
Idk, it is possible that the last person I was accosted by, who was downright aggressive with me about 'God' has made me more sensitive, but I wonder whether, because 'God' is mainstream, whether it is something that is seen as well meaning, when in fact, boundaries should be respected.
Just ignore if this is offensive or seems scrambled. I am still working this out.
scout86
VIP Member
I think so too.
And, from the standpoint of "successful proselytizing" that approach nearly always starts by failing and often goes on to truly annoy people, and from there, it sometimes leads to a total condemnation of anything and everything that smacks of "Christianity". Pretty much no one likes that approach and it rarely accomplishes the desired (and most likely well intended) result. But, there are some sects that seem to teach it as "the thing to do". Oddly (?) Jesus himself is not recorded as trying to force his ideas on ANYONE, the way I interpret things anyway.
I suspect that in the Land of the Universalists, the Christians would be "nuts". Except that they might be non-judgemental enough not to see it that way. I think it's mostly a math thing. "Sanity" is defined by the majority.
And, the way I understand it, the goal for a Christian is to live a life such that people notice and feel ok to ask "Hey? How is it that you're managing to do what ever is it you're doing?" and THEN you do the sales pitch. (I might be in the minority, which, I guess, means I'm nuts. LOL)
.
The Albatross
VIP Member
"Christians" have the same biases and perceptual issues as anyone else. Social ineptness runs the full gamut of humanity. I can see that you felt "pushed". I feel pressed or pushed as well to "not" be a Christian in many ways. It is not nice to be pushed... but it does not have to culminate in being triggered. There are many steps to make a different choice and react differently with practice.
Justmehere
Sponsor
What the poster posted, it annoyed me too, and I'm a follower of Jesus. I'm sort of processing this kind of thing myself because it came up in my life offline today. Yet again.
The poster isn't terribly pushy, doesn't actually say you must, but it does feel that way... or it reminds me of people who are that way. Who really are pushy. There are many people who are pushy of faith out there. Some Christians and people of many other faiths really do feel like people MUST believe too, with a sense of great urgency behind it, and it can feel pushy even when it is not intended to be.
I'm not sure how to explain my experience very well, and this is just my experience and journey with this kind of thing happening in my life offline (and occasionally online too.) I am not saying my process is what would work or help anyone else, only that I can relate and this is how I'm trying to see it, but it's a struggle. A really difficult struggle.
And this is probably a terribly hypocritical post as well, so please take all of what I write very lightly. :)
If no one of that belief system had hurt me, and someone had posted that, I would think, well, that's for them, not me. And I would move on. I live in an area where stuff like this happens for all kinds of faiths. It's a weird town... But this actually can come up all the time. I will be buying coffee at a local shop and someone will come up and start preaching about some religion... it's annoying, but not quite triggering...
Except, if someone of that belief system had really hurt me, I would feel more like "BACK OFF JERK..." (or much less kind words than "jerk"). I would not actually say that, but to be honest, that's what I would struggle with thinking, because it triggers me that much myself.
I can feel that way with Christians who are well meaning, but overly pushy myself, because I have been hurt by people who said they were Christians. There are jerks in every faith, and sadly, even predators - and I have run into a couple.
If it was someone of a faith that I was not hurt by, I would be able to see it as their belief, and frankly, one that they think is the cure to everything, and sort of respect their consistency. If I had found something that I fully believed was a quick cure to everything in the world, and believed I was required by God himself to preach it to everyone to be a good follower, IF i actually believed that, then I might be tempted to post about it left and right too, with a hey guys, you gotta try this kind of attitude. It's like someone who is totally convinced they have THE cure for cancer posting on a cancer forum. If they really did have it, people kind of naturally act that way. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS OK or a good idea, only that it's consistent. Sort of. It isn't consistent in the sense that they do it in the name of a loving God. I don't believe a loving God pushes themselves onto people or wants others to do that either. (More on that later...)
Even if people are convinced of something like this, they should know that this is not effective or helpful, and can hurt really bad, especially among people who may or may not have been deeply wounded by religion, and actually push people away from it... just like we can see happening here.
I don't do this because I don't think that is what Christianity is about, I don't think it's really about a simple band-aid that will cure whatever ails people. I think that perspective actually cheapens it. I think it is a faith of so much more... and I am very sensitive, jumpy, reactive, even angry about Christians sometimes forget that they believe in a savior, and it's not them, and that even Jesus didn't push himself on people. Like at all.
In fact, the Jesus of the bible that some Christians can very much get self righteously preachy and pushy about, there are stories of him giving really strong words of critique towards the people of his day who thought they had all the answers as well (the Pharisees) and thought they has all of the info about God all right, and pushed their beliefs on people too. Yeah, according to the stories in the bible, believe them or not, that Jesus got pissed with those people.
So it is even more PAINFULLY ironic and deeply frustrating for me, and yet nothing new, that some people of this faith who believe in that book, the bible, are the exact same way.
I used to get even more frustrated with people about this. Triggered. I met someone who was a pastor in a mega church until she was kicked out for saying "broken" and "uncomfortable" and standing up for people who were openly struggling too much. (It was a really stupid mess that she has been public about.) She shared with me a number of charts about "the stages of faith" as proposed by a number of scholars. She said this helped her figure out a little how to deal with people who were pushy of any faith. I'm going to post a link to it, but not because I think people should go read it or not - it's up to people to do if they want to or not - I am posting the link as to not plagiarize ideas that I didn't come up with. It's linked on this page (to see it in context): http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ Or at this page more directly: http://kathyescobar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/stages-of-faith.pdf
Her chart is based of a number of other charts about the stages of faith and is applicable for most religions. I live in a town that has a very religious spiritual culture - but of many other religions other than Christianity, and the idea of stages of faith has helped me not get so irked about people who get so overly pushy about matters of faith.
The idea is basically that there are more or less 6 stages of faith. The first stage is where people believe in a very simplistic formulaic faith. They are into it because of what they think it does for them. They progress along, and people get stuck in the third stage of faith when they become overly zealous about doing good things for God. It's like the poster that was pushy about their belief's that prompted this thread. They seem like someone who *might* be in that stage. They have to do this for God and for other people and... so on.
People get out of that stage usually by either regressing to an easier stage of faith, or by hit a wall. I have hit that wall, many times. I don't really know where I land in terms of stages of faith now.... I think I am entirely off the map much of the time. But that wall is why so many people get stuck in that over zealous phase. The wall hurts. People avoid pain. SO they stick with the overzealousness....
Not everyone goes through these phases, it's an imperfect model that just helped me a little. I did go through a brief period of time where I was overly zeolous. It was only for a few weeks before a dear friend sort of verbally woke me up and told me how stupid I was being, and trauma helped push me past it, but damn, when I look back, I feel bad about it. I have gone back and actually apologized to people. Not for what I believe, but for how I talked about it. I hope I'm not overly zealous in that kind of hurtful way now. I thought I had what could solve ANYTHING. I mean think about it, if you think you have that, wouldn't you be shouting it from the rooftops too? Ok so most people here probably would not, as we really know what it is like to be hurt by people who push boundaries....
The stages of faith that people can go through does NOT make being a pushy jerk ok, it only gives a framework for me to understand why people become pushy jerks about religion.
And when such pushiness comes from someone who talks of the same faith that others who claimed that they were of that faith who hurt me so bad... ugh. I mean, I get it. I have wanted to scream at other Christians for being that way. I know I am a massive hypocrite. Because I was that way. For a short while.
Now, when someone is that way (and this is where I am at right now and I don't think it would work for others, just my process) I try to recognize that I am still hurt about what happened to me by people claiming to be Christians who got pushy in a traumatic life threatening way. I also try to recognize that they are telling me about themselves. They are telling me that they are stuck in the "What I can do for God" stage. Stuck. It helps me not scream at them to back the f*ck off (which I want to do), but to say "hey, this is not for me in this way and it's not going to help you or me to push it on me. Please drop it, or I can't continue to engage with you. Thanks." People who don't respect that get "ignored" online and offline.
so maybe all of this makes me a stupid fool.... I dunno.
I just can say that yeah, it bugs me too. Sometimes to the point of tears. I've dealt with more than enough pushiness in life, and it's especially painful when someone does it claiming they are doing it to love me. That makes it worse.
Love does not push boundaries. Love does not push themselves or their ideas onto people. That's not love. Not to me. It's... ugh... gross in a really deeply awful way...
I think it's almost that disconnect, that instant discongruency about it that really triggers me, or that mix of calling something so hurtful as love. It feels threatening because I know what pushy so called "love" can look like in the very worst ways.
That's my process and reaction to this kind of thing.
The poster isn't terribly pushy, doesn't actually say you must, but it does feel that way... or it reminds me of people who are that way. Who really are pushy. There are many people who are pushy of faith out there. Some Christians and people of many other faiths really do feel like people MUST believe too, with a sense of great urgency behind it, and it can feel pushy even when it is not intended to be.
I'm not sure how to explain my experience very well, and this is just my experience and journey with this kind of thing happening in my life offline (and occasionally online too.) I am not saying my process is what would work or help anyone else, only that I can relate and this is how I'm trying to see it, but it's a struggle. A really difficult struggle.
And this is probably a terribly hypocritical post as well, so please take all of what I write very lightly. :)
If no one of that belief system had hurt me, and someone had posted that, I would think, well, that's for them, not me. And I would move on. I live in an area where stuff like this happens for all kinds of faiths. It's a weird town... But this actually can come up all the time. I will be buying coffee at a local shop and someone will come up and start preaching about some religion... it's annoying, but not quite triggering...
Except, if someone of that belief system had really hurt me, I would feel more like "BACK OFF JERK..." (or much less kind words than "jerk"). I would not actually say that, but to be honest, that's what I would struggle with thinking, because it triggers me that much myself.
I can feel that way with Christians who are well meaning, but overly pushy myself, because I have been hurt by people who said they were Christians. There are jerks in every faith, and sadly, even predators - and I have run into a couple.
If it was someone of a faith that I was not hurt by, I would be able to see it as their belief, and frankly, one that they think is the cure to everything, and sort of respect their consistency. If I had found something that I fully believed was a quick cure to everything in the world, and believed I was required by God himself to preach it to everyone to be a good follower, IF i actually believed that, then I might be tempted to post about it left and right too, with a hey guys, you gotta try this kind of attitude. It's like someone who is totally convinced they have THE cure for cancer posting on a cancer forum. If they really did have it, people kind of naturally act that way. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS OK or a good idea, only that it's consistent. Sort of. It isn't consistent in the sense that they do it in the name of a loving God. I don't believe a loving God pushes themselves onto people or wants others to do that either. (More on that later...)
Even if people are convinced of something like this, they should know that this is not effective or helpful, and can hurt really bad, especially among people who may or may not have been deeply wounded by religion, and actually push people away from it... just like we can see happening here.
I don't do this because I don't think that is what Christianity is about, I don't think it's really about a simple band-aid that will cure whatever ails people. I think that perspective actually cheapens it. I think it is a faith of so much more... and I am very sensitive, jumpy, reactive, even angry about Christians sometimes forget that they believe in a savior, and it's not them, and that even Jesus didn't push himself on people. Like at all.
In fact, the Jesus of the bible that some Christians can very much get self righteously preachy and pushy about, there are stories of him giving really strong words of critique towards the people of his day who thought they had all the answers as well (the Pharisees) and thought they has all of the info about God all right, and pushed their beliefs on people too. Yeah, according to the stories in the bible, believe them or not, that Jesus got pissed with those people.
So it is even more PAINFULLY ironic and deeply frustrating for me, and yet nothing new, that some people of this faith who believe in that book, the bible, are the exact same way.
I used to get even more frustrated with people about this. Triggered. I met someone who was a pastor in a mega church until she was kicked out for saying "broken" and "uncomfortable" and standing up for people who were openly struggling too much. (It was a really stupid mess that she has been public about.) She shared with me a number of charts about "the stages of faith" as proposed by a number of scholars. She said this helped her figure out a little how to deal with people who were pushy of any faith. I'm going to post a link to it, but not because I think people should go read it or not - it's up to people to do if they want to or not - I am posting the link as to not plagiarize ideas that I didn't come up with. It's linked on this page (to see it in context): http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ Or at this page more directly: http://kathyescobar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/stages-of-faith.pdf
Her chart is based of a number of other charts about the stages of faith and is applicable for most religions. I live in a town that has a very religious spiritual culture - but of many other religions other than Christianity, and the idea of stages of faith has helped me not get so irked about people who get so overly pushy about matters of faith.
The idea is basically that there are more or less 6 stages of faith. The first stage is where people believe in a very simplistic formulaic faith. They are into it because of what they think it does for them. They progress along, and people get stuck in the third stage of faith when they become overly zealous about doing good things for God. It's like the poster that was pushy about their belief's that prompted this thread. They seem like someone who *might* be in that stage. They have to do this for God and for other people and... so on.
People get out of that stage usually by either regressing to an easier stage of faith, or by hit a wall. I have hit that wall, many times. I don't really know where I land in terms of stages of faith now.... I think I am entirely off the map much of the time. But that wall is why so many people get stuck in that over zealous phase. The wall hurts. People avoid pain. SO they stick with the overzealousness....
Not everyone goes through these phases, it's an imperfect model that just helped me a little. I did go through a brief period of time where I was overly zeolous. It was only for a few weeks before a dear friend sort of verbally woke me up and told me how stupid I was being, and trauma helped push me past it, but damn, when I look back, I feel bad about it. I have gone back and actually apologized to people. Not for what I believe, but for how I talked about it. I hope I'm not overly zealous in that kind of hurtful way now. I thought I had what could solve ANYTHING. I mean think about it, if you think you have that, wouldn't you be shouting it from the rooftops too? Ok so most people here probably would not, as we really know what it is like to be hurt by people who push boundaries....
The stages of faith that people can go through does NOT make being a pushy jerk ok, it only gives a framework for me to understand why people become pushy jerks about religion.
And when such pushiness comes from someone who talks of the same faith that others who claimed that they were of that faith who hurt me so bad... ugh. I mean, I get it. I have wanted to scream at other Christians for being that way. I know I am a massive hypocrite. Because I was that way. For a short while.
Now, when someone is that way (and this is where I am at right now and I don't think it would work for others, just my process) I try to recognize that I am still hurt about what happened to me by people claiming to be Christians who got pushy in a traumatic life threatening way. I also try to recognize that they are telling me about themselves. They are telling me that they are stuck in the "What I can do for God" stage. Stuck. It helps me not scream at them to back the f*ck off (which I want to do), but to say "hey, this is not for me in this way and it's not going to help you or me to push it on me. Please drop it, or I can't continue to engage with you. Thanks." People who don't respect that get "ignored" online and offline.
so maybe all of this makes me a stupid fool.... I dunno.
I just can say that yeah, it bugs me too. Sometimes to the point of tears. I've dealt with more than enough pushiness in life, and it's especially painful when someone does it claiming they are doing it to love me. That makes it worse.
Love does not push boundaries. Love does not push themselves or their ideas onto people. That's not love. Not to me. It's... ugh... gross in a really deeply awful way...
I think it's almost that disconnect, that instant discongruency about it that really triggers me, or that mix of calling something so hurtful as love. It feels threatening because I know what pushy so called "love" can look like in the very worst ways.
That's my process and reaction to this kind of thing.
While I am still a Christian, I can understand how this pushy and simplistic and hurtful version of Christian can lead to a loss of faith. Completely.
Last edited:
- Post starter
- #23
Yes, which is why I am posting.
1. To see if I am skewed out on this (which I am)
2. To what degree
With the ultimate goal of being able to set my boundaries in a non-reactive way coming from my place of 'trauma' as it relates to religion.
@Justmehere , I am still taking in your post. Thank you so much for the detail and obvious effort you put in. I will be back to it.
@shimmerz I have been triggered by religious post before, even though I have not been religious at any time in my life.
It felt like I was being attacked, even though I wasn't, although the post was quoted at me, and it was about forgiveness from a religious point of view. I was so completely panicked and I left the forum for several months as I was already in a bad place and I flipped out I guess you could say.
It bought so much emotion, from unworthiness, anger, and abandonment, from all those who never cared. I normally would not take offence at others religious views, so I can only guess I was triggered, and it brought up how alone I felt as a child.
It felt like I was being attacked, even though I wasn't, although the post was quoted at me, and it was about forgiveness from a religious point of view. I was so completely panicked and I left the forum for several months as I was already in a bad place and I flipped out I guess you could say.
It bought so much emotion, from unworthiness, anger, and abandonment, from all those who never cared. I normally would not take offence at others religious views, so I can only guess I was triggered, and it brought up how alone I felt as a child.
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