Redefining Mentally Ill

[Pencil]

If I had done so (been able to get my head around it because of the severity of the situation) - who would be the 'evil' one then? Am I so frightened of being as evil as them that I would die for it? Apparently so. Is it true that evil is as evil does? Stymied.

I'm only now beginning to see how terrified we are of this.
And Clockwork Orange keeps coming to mind - so often that I can't ignore it. I don't want to refer to the movie because the main character was such a sick job that I don't want to create the impression that I identify with him. But I do think we had our defenses programmed out of us.

 

[shimmerz]

And here is the real question. Are we all so terrified of it that we would rather see those victimized by it (including ourselves) be damned, labelled and dismissed etc so that NONE of us need to deal with the real problem? What does one do with evil besides annihilate it? Full circle.

I am so ill equipped for this type of behaviour. I swear to on my life, as I was squeegying off the tennis courts this morning I picked up and earthworm so I wouldn't squish him, walked across the courts (3 of them) to the fence that had the most mud so I would ensure he would have the best chance of survival.

lol. Hopeless freaking mess in this situation. Good luck T-doc and SO in CBT on this one. Help me.....

 

[Pencil]

Somerset Maugham is one of my favourite writers - he had the most acute insight into humans. I don't have the quote now, and don't even remember which novel or short story it is from, but he says that one of the confounding things about humans is that aggressors become angry with their victims AFTER the fact / deed. I had to read it a couple of times to really get it. And all my life experience has shown me that he was correct. I think there is a tendency for all humans to be annoyed with victims - hence 'victim blaming'.

Indeed, full circle.

 

[Eleanor]

Is it true that evil is as evil does?

Yes. And context matters. If someone were seriously threatening my children (or grandchildren), actually probably even my dog, and I had no reason to think anything else would stop them, I would shoot them in a heartbeat and not lose sleep over it.

But that sort of thing is, thankfully, pretty rare. But it clearly happens, and if it does in your case @shimmerz you need to have a gun and know how to use it. Or a cast iron skillet. Or something. And you need to be willing to defend yourself. So, in addition to the therapy, you should rehearse "being" the sort of person who would defend themselves. I like Fiona Glenann from Burn Notice myself. Or the various badass women from NCIS. If you got a big high duty dog (shepard, Doberman, Rotweiller, Mastiff, or best, Akita or Akita mix) nobody sane would come after you, and a crazy person would get hurt. Plus, just living with them is really really good because it gives you a model of having good boundaries. Plus you might want to start learning a martial art if you haven't already.

The hard truth is that some people need shooting. If someone had stopped the bastard before or beaten the crap out of him for doing this sort of thing, he might have learned to stop. He might have had a reason to. But apparently he doesn't yet. Do you know any super scary people who might show up on this guy's doorstep at 3 AM and tell him to lay off or else? If you lived in California I know a couple of guys who'd be happy to...

@Pencil - I think the logic of the reversal goes something like this:

“Watch: (1) You do something nasty to me. (2) I hate you. (3) You find it uncomfortable to be hated. (4) You think how nice it would be if I didn't hate you. (5) You decide I ought not to hate you because hate is bad. (6) Good people don’t hate. (7) Because I hate you I am a bad person. (8) It is not what you did to me that makes me hate you, it is my own bad nature. I—not you—am the cause of my hating you.”

― Joanna Russ

And yes, I think there should absolutely be mandatory reporters for grown ups as well as children.

 

[Pencil]

Radical re-location comes to mind.

It usually seems like a good idea. Sometimes it isn't. Staying in the same place means that there are usually a few people who have knowledge of the situation, and they become part of one's protective wall. Calling on one person who can verify / vouch / witness can be life saving. Moving away can be the best idea, but it can also be isolating. It depends on how determined the person is. And this is not always clear before such a move. I moved away, and it actually opened the door for a new 'attack' as I'm in the jurisdiction of another court, and my sister had a gap to try a new process as she was blocked at the previous court, and I now have to start the process of 'proving innocence' all over again. Sun-Tsu also warns against isolation, which is effectively what one is in a new environment.

 

[Pencil]

mandatory reporters

Meaning?

 

[Pencil]

I wonder if martial arts would not be a good idea - not necessarily to use it (it is probably useless in most cases, especially if you are not in a ring with a ref) but to train the mind to be willing to punch - and shoot, if necessary.

 

[Eleanor]

The 'right thing' (and I could be wrong) seems to be to me absence of anything that is 'wrong' - e.g. 'we don't hit back', 'if they something ugly, you don't have to respond with something ugly', 'just walk away'. I'm turning my daughter into another victim. The 'right' thing morally is often not the best thing socially.

So knowing the wrong thing is a good place to start. You know, for example, that you can't lie. So you have to tell the truth, but what truth do you tell? There is, after all, lots of truth in the world. And there are a lot of ways to tell it. "You are a small souled pitiful excuse for a human being" is not necessarily a mean thing to say if it is objectively true. Nor is "You are a bully." Nor is "You are not worth spending my time and energy on." Don't fight (verbally) Be Clear. Do Aikido - send all the negative energy right back to them. It is theirs, so it is only right to return it to them. We call this: Insta-karma.

FWIW I don't think "we don't hit back" is actually a good rule. A better one is "don't start a fight, but if someone else throws the first punch, then you end it as quickly and with the least amount of damage possible." You needn't say ugly things. But that doesn't mean you don't have to say anything. You could say, "I feel so sorry for you." You could call them out "That was really ugly. I choose not to be around people like you." And walk away. Learning to disengage with dignity is an important life skill. Just naming things has a lot of power. "That was mean." Tone matters here too. Sometime it just needs to be a statement of fact. Sometimes it needs to be in an angry voice. Sometimes it can be accusatory. It depends, on who they are, who you are, what the situation is, and what might work.

 

[Pencil]

and what might work.

But that is a perpetual mystery!!!

 

[Eleanor]

In the states we have "mandatory reporters" which means that some people, by virtue of their job and or training are required by law to report any suspected child abuse or neglect to the police and social services. It is not discretionary. If sometime comes to their attention (and there are some rules and training about what those things are) they can be held criminally responsible if they fail to report. So, school teachers, bus drivers, doctors and nurses, counsellors, and of course cops and social workers are all mandatory reporters.

 

[shimmerz]

Do you know any super scary people who might show up on this guy's doorstep at 3 AM and tell him to lay off or else?

Yes. My SO has repeatedly discussed this with me. I went to T-doc discussing how uncomfortable that made me. We came to 'well then we need to change that don't we?' He offered to 'fix this' at the time it was started 8 years ago, left for a few years and offered again. Much of your Watch list is relevant to me, resonates with me. This is going to be something that I include with the 'chess' piece that @Pencil put across to me.

It depends on how determined the person is. And this is not always clear before such a move.

And this is what continually puts one into freeze mode. I cannot think like these people therefore I cannot anticipate the best move. Frozen.

@Pencil, here is Canada if a teacher or doctor believes that a child is being abused at home they are bound by law to call the local Children's Aid. We are speaking of the same thing being put in place for adults. A duty to report.
Also, my first T-doc suggested martial arts training. I almost threw up on the spot. There is a very large elephant in the room on this one for me - even now I am dizzy even thinking about it. What is THAT?

 

[shimmerz]

But that is a perpetual mystery!!!

Manfred Man's song 'Blinded by the Light' comes to mind. This is fascinating to me as I am seeing the cognition unfold in front of me. Blinded just an hour ago and now concepts (no ideas yet) but at least a slight glimmer that things could and should be different socially, yes, but also internally. This is a huge one for me.