Poll Taking Things Literally.

[Philippa]

I'm just wondering if there are any people here who take things literally, regularly?

I was just discussing something with some people from the mra, and this one guy said, quote "Women are human beings of the female sex, and feminists are idealogues who follow an ideology." Now, to me that seemed like he was saying that women who are not feminists are human and female, but feminists are not either of these things.

I was appauled and retorted that I thought it was disgusting of him and de-humanizing to say that about feminists...of course they are still women and human beings. That was how his words read to me. I was reprimanded and told that I was being rude and insulting his intelligence... (even though the guy told me I was dull) and that I interpreted the words too literally. He also went on to say that most people would have understood what he was saying, as most people aren't literalist.

I'm wondering how many people here are literalists...and if that has anything to do with ptsd?

 

[silkleaves]

I don't know, I mean...when it comes to political / social topics, a lot of times people say things in a way to emphasize their point and do a lot of inflating of ideas to get their views across. Most of the time I find those convos tiresome and so don't really pay attention.

But I am literal in the sense that I suck at reading when someone is being coy or subtle. I take someones word for what it is, meaning I don't look for hidden meanings or read between any lines. It's the way I communicate though, and hate when people imply something I didn't say. I always figure..if that's what I meant to say..I would have said it! And on the same note, if that's what you wanted me to understand, you should have just said that!

It has caused a lot of communication issues for me with a lot of people, enough that I think that it must be me with the issue. But I don't know...to me it would just be a heck of a lot easier to just say exactly what you mean. It's madding to hear someone say "I didn't mean it like that" But it's what you said...and then I'm pretty much done talking to them because I don't have time for that.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I'm pretty literal. Seriously, spell it out exactly how you mean it because it is hard to me interpret shades of grey in your meaning!

You're braver than I. Talking to MRA freaks? I don't think they're human. "Waaaah, I'm losing my privilege on the top of the mountain as a white man. Feel sorry for me!!" Ugh, please.

 

[Philippa]

But I don't know...to me it would just be a heck of a lot easier to just say exactly what you mean. It's madding to hear someone say "I didn't mean it like that" But it's what you said...and then I'm pretty much done talking to them because I don't have time for that.

This is how I feel. Maybe I am a literalist, but to me, if you want to be understood then say what you mean without expecting the other person to just get what you mean, when what you say can easily be misunderstood...as I think his words were. But being it was an mra group of men and I was the only woman interacting with them there, it is easy to make it about my own intellectual dullness, or some failure on my part, rather than look at how he worded it in a way that made it easy to take at face value.

I'm glad I actually stop and take the full picture into account anyway, and not just believe him that it was all me and some kind of failure on my part. The way he said "most people would have understood what he meant, because they aren't a literalist (like you). It felt like he was singling me out as the village idiot rather than admit that his friend actually worded it in a way that made it seem like he was saying feminists aren't really women or even human.[DOUBLEPOST=1401893575,1401893309][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'm pretty literal. Seriously, spell it out exactly how you mean it because it is hard to me interpret shades of grey in your meaning!

Exactly. Just say what you actually mean and don't word it like you mean something else, and at least have the balls to admit when you have worded it in a way that can be misinterpreted so easily.

You're braver than I. Talking to MRA freaks? I don't think they're human. "Waaaah, I'm losing my privilege on the top of the mountain as a white man. Feel sorry for me!!" Ugh, please.

Not sure if brave is the right word here? More like stupid for even wasting my time with them. The way he worded it was literally (pun intended) "Women are human beings who are of the female sex and feminists are idealogues, following a political party ideology."

Who wouldn't interpret that to mean that feminists are not only not human but aren't women either? And they called ME intellectually dishonest. I've heard so many of them say this...that feminists aren't women. And they can't understand why that might sound dehumanizing?

 

[scout86]

I tend to be pretty literal too. I don't know if it has any connection to PTSD or not. I can see how it might be connected to a way the brain learns to process information by "minimizing" or missing the point so you don't have to deal with the point. It's kind of "safer" to be literal, maybe?

But, not all feminists are female and all females aren't feminists..... I'm not sure what his point was. Maybe he INTENDED it to sound dehumanizing (among other things)?

He's probably technically correct. According to Dictionary.com, and "ideology" is "the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group."

 

[silkleaves]

it is hard to me interpret shades of grey in your meaning!

I wasn't so sure that this had anything to do with PTSD, but when I read what you said here, I realized it might just be? Because I am not a shades of gray person at all. And I know it was something that my Therapist talked with me about...that I do see the world in black and white, and I'm either at 0% or 100%. Even though I try, I have a hard time seeing or being able to understand anything in-between.

I can off the top of my head think of a handful of people who I don't believe anything they say...mostly out of those "I didn't mean it like that" type conversations. In my minds eye, if you said it, but didn't mean it then you're a liar and I can't trust you. With anything. Ever." And that is pretty much it for me...sooo, yes, perhaps.

 

[Philippa]

Maybe he INTENDED it to sound dehumanizing (among other things)?

Well,they both got horribly insulted that I insinuated that, so if it was his intent he was being sneaky about it? I don't think he intended for it to sound this way, I just think that neither of them actually saw that it sounded horribly dehumanizing.

But then they would argue that I was hunting for misogyny that didn't exist. I didn't trust either of them after that point past. It seemed like they were both playing with my head.

He's probably technically correct. According to Dictionary.com, and "ideology" is "the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group."

Yeah, I get that a feminist follows an ideology, but the way it was worded made it sound as though they were not human or of the female sex. But then when I pointed out to him that his wording wasn't the best I was told the wording was fine it was my literal interpretation and that I was dull for not just getting what he meant.

 

[Springer80]

The guy is a douche. If a woman holds an ideal she IS an ideologue and divorced from her being? A woman can't have humanity and ideals simultaneously? A woman can't have a humanity that this guy can benefit from if she has ideals.

He's a prick and one who seems to have studied to protect his own viewpoint, including his be-litting retorts to squash any feelings in those who object. I wonder if his forcibly intellectualised cold theories keep him warm at night, in his smug retaliatory spite? My guess is... probably not. And in this state he has the perfect environment to come up with more self affirming theories about women. Good luck to him.

DO NOT bother with him or about him or about what he said. Pity him.

In relation to your to taking things literally, I have in the past not had the cognitive energy to keep up with people's joshing with me, pulling my leg etc. It's fatigue not lack of faculty. But do not be duped by people who veil their harmful sentiments in trussed up language so they can channel their emotion into sanitised philosophy. Actually better still just avoid them THEY ARE DULL.

 

[Springer80]

In fact Phillipa if you consider it, he is going around starting deliberately vague but contentious topics with women for the very purpose of then telling you that:

If you were clever enough you'd understand etc
Your being offended at being dis-respected is dull.....

Man alive he needs help.

If you turned around and said to him, SO douche (I'll call him Douche, seen as you didn't mention a name and it fits), why is it that you go around apparently discussing feminism but in a passive aggressive way with women you hardly know for the benefit of putting them down? What's the matter, girlfriend dumped ya? :devilish::hilarious:

Only I wouldn't, cos he sounds like one tightly wound fruit loop.

 

[Springer80]

Anyway, what/who are the MRA? @Solara post made me wonder...

 

[Philippa]

Thanks Springer...that's exactly how it felt as well. That he and his buddy ganged up on me specifically to try and make me feel like I was dumb, narcissistic, egotistical, and arrogant, self absorbed (all of which were things the first guy told me I am, as well as saying I must read Deepak Chopra and read tarot cards...then lol'd at me for it.)

He insults me then turns around and tells me off for insulting someone who was clearly being offensive and doing exactly what I said he was doing. And a WOMAN is the head of this little group of theirs. Karen Straughn. I don't know what her deal is but she gives a very convincing argument to make it seem like it's the men who are being deprived of their rights, and she stands up for these douches so they feel like they can step on anyone who tries to argue a point, because they will be backed up by her and all the other "men" hanging out there.

I felt distinctly belittled as well. They put me down for reading his words the way he put them, which WAS dehumanizing to feminists.[DOUBLEPOST=1401904447,1401904381][/DOUBLEPOST]

Anyway, what/who are the MRA? @Solara post made me wonder...

Mens Rights Activists.

 

[Springer80]

Erm,....stop going. And I would bet my flat on the fact that that Karen women has some serious ISSUES, seen as she needs to adopt such harmful rhetoric as her own in order to feel empowered by these men. T-W-I-S-T-E-D.

Do you go because you feel the need to re-assert your power so you go and try and fight for it against the very people who oppose it?
I get that. I understand the feeling but you don't get justification/affirmation from doing battle with people like this.