the shame monster

[Tinyflame]

I was thinking about this, because yesterday I had great shame, (and it did not have to do with my body, or in relationship, etc etc).

But what I really noticed (as expected), like it being (emotional) state-dependent it reminded me of other times critical in my life, when I felt the same thing: shame; guilt; the 'feelings' of the future potentially spiraling out of control; overwhelmed of lack of resources; very, very alone to deal with it; dread for the future (even short term), and feelings of doom; and feelings of total self-rejection, being ~awful, ~'contagious', though that isn't quite the right word. All over an event that shouldn't have had that magnitude (but of course, it wasn't over just 'that' event). :(

I don't know how to solve that-or the questions I should be asking myself. But I do think, I have always wondered where 'hope' goes? -It's like I have a 'hope' tapeworm. And (just for me, personally) I think it is not specifically depression at those moments that makes me dread the future, and feel self-rejection, and fear, it's the subjective feeling 'here (we) go again', here it is unfolding again, and I am alone and resourceless. And it's crushing and terrifying.

ETA, "..unfolding again, and I am alone and resourceless, * and (the problem is=) 'me-being-me' ".

So Idk if I think I entirely deserve it, +/or it's a consequence of 'myself'. I certainly don't feel I deserve the future to be 'ok', but I also feel it won't/ can't be, if/ because I'm in it. I guess.

 

[PreciousChild]

I was thinking about this, because yesterday I had great shame, (and it did not have to do with my body, or in relationship, etc etc).

But what I really noticed (as expected), like it being (emotional) state-dependent it reminded me of other times critical in my life, when I felt the same thing: shame; guilt; the 'feelings' of the future potentially spiraling out of control; overwhelmed of lack of resources; very, very alone to deal with it; dread for the future (even short term), and feelings of doom; and feelings of total self-rejection, being ~awful, ~'contagious', though that isn't quite the right word. All over an event that shouldn't have had that magnitude (but of course, it wasn't over just 'that' event). :(

I don't know how to solve that-or the questions I should be asking myself. But I do think, I have always wondered where 'hope' goes? -It's like I have a 'hope' tapeworm. And (just for me, personally) I think it is not specifically depression at those moments that makes me dread the future, and feel self-rejection, and fear, it's the subjective feeling 'here (we) go again', here it is unfolding again, and I am alone and resourceless. And it's crushing and terrifying.

I can so relate to this. Bradshaw says that the feeling of the future spiraling out of control has to do with a lack of self-worth. I'm not 100% sure how to interpret that. I kind of think of it as rooted in the ptsd reaction to being exposed - the crappy, stupid, worthless self who had to be shoved deep down as to not piss off the parents when it's exposed, it makes a person fearful that they will even be able to survive.

You talk about hope - I think that's so relevant. Hope isn't rooted in fact or reason. It's like a beautiful lie, but one that in its own way is so true because things do work out for the best usually. But when we're spiraling, the possible future facts whirl around us and there's just no end. We can't convince ourselves that everything is going to be okay.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @PreciousChild . Raw, exposed, for being 'me', and all my self and 'deficiencies' and past. For being 'me'. :(

I don't think hope is a lie, though. I think it's a deeper truth.

:hug:

I should come back to add, since this is what I meant about 'hope':

I noticed a few minutes ago, because I have the windows open, and also am working outside, and I must be on a 'flight path', and with all these thoughts (more feelings) swirling in my head/ body since yesterday, every time one came to me, the reminder and sick-to-my-stomach-hopeless-crawl-under-a-rock-disappear-feeling came, it was interrupted by a honking goose, this morning but come to think of it, last night, too? :wideeyed: :confused: Even at midnight. I didn't notice the goose/ geese, I noticed the thought interrupted by the goose. And realized the thought/ feeling was there, because the goose's 'honk' interfered. After 20 times or so, I thought it's like, "look up here!, listen, think!"

Then I thought, I feel alone- and there are all these geese in formation: 2 and 2 and 3 and 3 and sometimes 12+. And what they represent, they don't even abandon each other; they go through their journeyies; they just "aren't" my trauma(s). And I think of the palindrome, 'Do Geese see God?"

So I don't think hope is intellectual, but it is influenced by perspective (to me). Where is my mind/ heart/ soul looking/ thinking/ feeling, living? Like @IamFree said below:

I am discovering recently that shame is often at the core of my acting out ..the anger sadness addictions E.T.C. I am finding it difficult to take part in life because of feeling somehow fundamentally shameful ..it seems its not enough knowing that people dont need to know everything about me , its like its enough that i know, .

I, too, am only me, even if I am 'awful'. But still, (to me), if I look 'else-wise', I am (also) being profoundly distracted from remembering or recognizing or acknowledging or accepting all and their efforts of those who have helped me, supported me, not judged me nor harmed me. Of what has been, or what is. What "isn't" frightening, gross, terrifying, sorrowful, hopeless, judgemental.

Yes the future is frightening, the damage is pretty big, my sphere of influence is very small, but, it is as it is. We judge ourselves very harshly, too.

:hug:

 

[PreciousChild]

That's been a huge challenge for me too, but also the most healing when I can manage - to embrace the parts of myself that are awful. Do you mean by the geese analogy that hope is like the force that keeps the flock together and flying. It might not be visible but it holds everything together.

For me, doing the exercises that van der Kolk talks about helped me a lot in integrating the banished parts of myself. I wanted to see if the shame book by Bradshaw had further methods.

 

[Tinyflame]

Well I wasn't thinking that @PreciousChild , but that is beautiful. Idk, just that they're living, doing their journey, and have more sense/ safety than some people.

I think living shouldn't be just wondering if you'll make it through another day. Or hoping not to, or not feeling entitled to. I know, easier said than done, me personally it's like having 10 interactive tv's on in my head at the same time, and 7 are horror shows.

I don't relate to parts, but good for you if they work.

 

[ladee]

I don't remember the 'particulars' of the Shame that Binds, as it was many many years ago that I read the book. But I can share how I Incorporated what I learned from it.

The main thing being, I am not a bad and wrong person. That I was told and shown, as a child, how worthLESS I was to them, and was told many lies. i.e., their perception.

Then, understanding how my perception of myself, was built on those lies. When we are bombarded with others perception, that becomes OUR truth also.

So, in order to UNlearn the lies, I had to be committed to finding my OWN truth. Someone calling me a 'chair', for instance, does not make me a chair. Silly analogy, but it was simple and I used it as a frame of reference.

I had to do a lot of self discipline. I was helped with support groups, therapists, reading about ways to heal. And, to UNlearn the lies told to me about myself.

I am a human first and foremost, and I live in a complex world. I had to learn the feelings and actions about toxic shame. Healthy shame tells me, for instance, that my tone of voice in a situation, was uncalled for, that is something I can correct. By paying attention to my stressors, and all that PTSD presents. Breaking it down, to see what was the root cause of my 'tone of voice'. I am NOT a bad person, I used a tone of voice that let me know something within needed to be taken apart and looked at.

NOT that I was defective, but that I was responsible for learning new ways to deal with the things going on around or within my life.

Hating on ourselves is a huge ugly bad habit. It's so ugly, that the good others see in us, can not get thru to show us other ways to look at our self.

That book was a turning point in my life. And I read it more than once thru the early years. I'll have to see if I can find a copy and read it again. Would be great to see the progress I've made.

No matter what we are working on, and no matter why, that same commitment and self discipline is called for. I can't expect things to change in my thinking, if I don't learn how to stop the toxic shame messages from taking over. If even for a few minutes , at first. It's different for each of us, the tools we use to 'thought stop', to give ourselves a minute of space and clarity.

Like anything we hear, or read, we learn to take what we need, what applies to us, and leave the rest. This book was life changing for me, and helped me to understand many things that came up as I got further into recovery with PTSD. It all took time, still does in some cases, but much faster process today.

Hope this helped. Tender hugs to you. :hug:'s

 

[Tinyflame]

That is an incredible post @ladee , a real gem. Thank you so much. :hug: I think, too, it discriminates clearly how to take responsibility, but not foster blame or feed the Inner Critic.

I was thinking, and it takes pieces and puts them together from several modalities/ therapies, Compassion-Focused(?) Therapy someone mentioned on here I believe helps to teach amongst other things (appropriate) self-compassion.

 

[digger]

@Xena please log in to your account to reply. Thanks.

 

[Tinyflame]

It came to me, the word that's better for post #13 above, I don't feel 'contagious', I feel 'destructive', that my presence is, or could be- a destructive force. Not at this particular second (do I feel it), but at times. Like I'm a potential cottonball-covered-dumb-bomb, in the lives of others: I look soft on the outside, but really am damaging. :( Which isn't shame, exactly, or comes from shame and feelings I've caused 'it' (?), or being blamed? Idk.

 

[ladee]

That makes sense to me @Junebug. I don't feel that way anymore, but I did a lot of my life. Like, all I had to do was walk into a room and cause a problem of some sort. That somehow I would walk back out of that room being to blame for some toxic energy that upset people by my mere presence.

Working on the toxic shame started to change that, and I also found out, I just wasn't that powerful to cause that kind of hurt and destruction. That it was things I was carrying inside of me, that I was afraid would be exposed to show others what a worthLESS piece of shit I was.

I had the words and the moves to make people think that I was all wise and wonderful. But it never felt authentic. And lo and behold, as time went on, and I healed more and more of that toxic shame, I found out, I really was wise and wonderful. And deeply loving and compassionate. That I was stronger than I ever imagined myself to be. Strong in the sense that my history did not kill me, that somewhere inside me, things were shifting, and I was already the person I wanted to be.

I just had to spend a lot of time getting others voices out of my head , the ones that told me the opposite of what I wanted to believe.

I am wise today,,tho not always wonderful. As I accept my humaness more and more, I leave room for learning from the things that no longer work for me. I am not a mistake. I have made mistakes, that I call lessons. But the human ladee, is not a mistake. Just as the human @Junebug isn't.

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks a lot for your posts, @ladee. They're really helpful and inspiring. Understanding what our parents did as lies, and how we built our sense of self around that was a really helpful thought, as well as realizing that being called a chair doesn't make you a chair. So great.

I'm so sorry, @Junebug. It's painful for me to hear you say that you feel so toxic because I've felt that way so much of my life. When I attempted suicide (I haven't ever returned to that since that one time during college, thank goodness), I had a list of pros and cons (pros being reasons to live and cons being reasons not to). I had only one thing on the pros list - books. I had dozens of things on my cons list, and on top of the list was the fact that I was a black hole that sucked everyone's life force away with my negation-existence. I don't even know how I survived my life sometimes.

But I so do not feel that way anymore. Honestly, I never thought I would ever grow out of that. I thought I was damaged forever, and in fact, I probably sabotaged myself in many ways to perpetuate that. But I put in a s***-load of hours and energy to grow and heal. I promised myself that to my last breath, I would not let me parents' dysfunctions have the final say in my life.

 

[Tinyflame]

@PreciousChild @ladee :hug: :hug: . Thank you.

a lot of my life. Like, all I had to do was walk into a room and cause a problem of some sort

Yes I feel sometimes I bring out the worst in people.

not a mistake.

I hope not.

I thought I was damaged forever, and in fact, I probably sabotaged myself in many ways to perpetuate that.

Yes me too.