Therapist Clueless About Sociopaths

[shimmerz]

But, according to the attorney, there is a clear pattern of harassment, and so I'll go with just that. Even so, with no mention of the things for which I have no hard evidence, my affidavit consists of 37 pages.

This is SO what I was speaking of in my other 'viral' posting. It frustrates me to no end that this type of behaviour is not seen for what it is! @Pencil, good for you for keeping up. You must be exhausted.

 

[Deleted member 28403]

A couple of ones who bullyed me were sociopaths or psychopaths.

They marked me as an enemy and manipulated around aganist me.

I don't want to talk about it now, I wrote a lot today.

 

[shimmerz]

was this person a diagnosed sociopath

This I think is where the problem lays. Sociopaths don't go to psychiatrists because nothing is EVER wrong with them. The victims of sociopaths do. Therefore there is extremely limited information on sociopaths and the prevalence of them within society.

 

[shimmerz]

Otherwise, we only undermine our own diagnoses, indirectly.

I get entirely what you are saying here JL but herein is where I think lies the difference between what the OP is trying to say (or ask) of her therapist.

If anyone here is old enough to remember Patty Hearst. She was taken captive by a radical group. In order to survive she acquired what is commonly known as Stockholm Syndrome. Stockholm Syndrome is something that has one sympathize with their captors or antagonizers. This seems to be a survival mechanism.

Whilst being victimized by someone who holds you captive (which is what I think we who have experienced this kind of abuse are speaking of), we are in survival mode. The hunted (which is what this feels like) cannot think. We cannot see ourselves from our captors. We second guess ourselves, we react constantly and our world vision is skewed just to survive the onslaught. We are constantly ungrounded.

It is in recognizing that this ungrounding is coming from an external source that we are able to plant our feet and recognize the situation for what it is and THEN we can work on ourselves and understand the role we play in the 'dance'.

This is one reason why I agree with the OP that the nature of the abuse must be validated, coping strategies given to extricate ourselves from the situation as best as we can (as we ourselves can see no way out) and then we can work on ourselves. It is tricky stuff.

 

[Deleted member 28403]

If anyone here is old enough to remember Patty Hearst. She was taken captive by a radical group. In order to survive she acquired what is commonly known as Stockholm Syndrome. Stockholm Syndrome is something that has one sympathize with their captors or antagonizers. This seems to be a survival mechanism.

Another kid that the bastard had on his tooth became a masochist due to the influence of the sadistic psychopath.

So yep, the syndrome works.

And its the same syndrome that happens on animals when taken from the wild as pets.

 

[joeylittle]

It is in recognizing that this ungrounding is coming from an external source that we are able to plant our feet and recognize the situation for what it is and THEN we can work on ourselves and understand the role we play in the 'dance'.

Oh, no, I do get it. And willingly admit that I was responding to later posts by the OP, not the original question.

Whatever works for someone in therapy, works. I'm still in disagreement that it is necessary to know the psychology - diagnosis or no - of the abuser. Mostly because it doesn't help me in the least, and sends me more towards rationalizing their behavior.

Abuse always comes from an external source, doesn't it? And that source is just plain bad-wrong-sick-twisted-evil-criminal-sick-bad-sick. But whether they are, say, psychopaths or narcissists or have psychosis - to me, it's not going to help me to know that.

I absolutely respect that everyone's treatment is their own, totally. It's pretty true to form for me to just bristle when I know I'm part of the group being talked about (again, pretty sure they would qualify as psychopaths (?)) and knowing that I have the opposite feeling to the majority - therefore I think it doesn't need to be included in the therapeutic approach, and I'm uncomfortable calling my trauma "distinct".

This is one reason why I agree with the OP that the nature of the abuse must be validated, coping strategies given to extricate ourselves from the situation as best as we can (as we ourselves can see no way out) and then we can work on ourselves. It is tricky stuff.

See, I think where you are coming from - and I've noticed this in @Dana1010 's responses also - is as a person with a prolonged exposure to and relationship with (not necessarily by choice, as with family members) the supposed psychopath.

Is it important to crack the code of "why" when you are dealing with an abuser you became pulled in by and trapped in a relationship with? Yeah, I could see that - because otherwise you would be stuck in not knowing how you were in the situation in the first place, and it is a way to understand that it's not you, it's them.

But that goes for any victim of CSA too, and includes a broader category than "psychopath".

Again - just from my experience (and you can check out my diary if you want to know the story), not knowing my kidnappers, and having been treated in these push-pull ways being described, questions with no answers, etc, etc, - personally, I don't benefit from thinking about what might have been wrong with them, if anything. My therapist thinks they were likely psychopathic, him explaining that to me doesn't really help me, and gets in the way a little.

I'm not expecting to win some argument here; just putting forward a different point of view and thinking about the actual ramifications of creating some whole other branch of PTSD for people who are victimized by people with personality disorders. I question the usefulness of such thinking, that's all. I've also found in this thread a whole lot of generalization about a specific kind of mental illness that is only barely understood, and I think it's unethical and kind of hypocritical to make those kinds of generalizations.

 

[Dana1010]

The intention of this thread was to talk to others about that specific 'something' that is present in the actions of a sociopath / psychopath / evil monster / malignant narcissist / personality disordered at the really wicked end of an already bad spectrum / whatever

I just want to clarify here. My intention for this thread was not to talk about "sociopath / psychopath / evil monster / malignant narcissist / personality disordered at the really wicked end of an already bad spectrum / whatever" but sociopaths/psychopaths specifically.

 

[shimmerz]

Abuse always comes from an external source, doesn't it?

Yes, until we learn to abuse ourselves as much if not more than we were originally abused, although that is another posting. The differentiation is in the continuation and relentlessness of the abuse. I am not certain that is being acknowledged here. Constantly running, hiding, etc. It doesn't have a end. So, if for instance you use the example you gave (and I am so sorry for this for you) of being kidnapped, there are certain issues that can come up with that if the persons responsible are not seen as being the aggressors, or worse, if you are painted as such. The aggressor is ticked and continues the abuse and bullying and nobody hears and attempts to stop such behaviour.

Also you were taken unwillingly and we who are drawn to sociopaths walk willingly into their arms. We need to know why. So understanding the nature of both sides the sociopath first and then our attraction to them, is of primary important, otherwise one sociopath may be short and dark haired the next blonde and slim, the other balding with blue eyes - but they all have something in common. And it isn't good for us.

I am uncertain as to what your reference to CSA is @joeylittle. Would you mind expanding on that please? I absolutely trust that you are not trying to split hairs and always enjoy and trust debating with you.

So i think what i am trying to get across is, just like with dissociation and learning coping mechanisms to control the dissociation so we can get to a place of healing, so must those of us who are stalked or targeted learn how to control our reactions or remove ourselves from a situation that is stopping us from getting better as we are so caught up in the drama of the moment by moment stuff that a sociopath drags us into.

"sociopath / psychopath / evil monster / malignant narcissist / personality disordered at the really wicked end of an already bad spectrum / whatever" but sociopaths/psychopaths specifically.

i think this is a by product of the thread I posted as there was much debate about applying labels. In my opinion (which means whatever.... :) ) it isn't so much about the label but about the behaviour. Being a target by a person that refuses to let go of a person I believe requires a certain expertise and needs to be addressed in therapy. I myself am moving out of the country for gods sake just to get away from these nuts. I now find out that Belize (which was my choice for summer) my ex just bought a place in. Now I need to be quiet to everyone about where I am going to go in the summer and am concerned he will purchase a place in Santa Monica as well (as I will be there for the winter). Who does that?

I choose to call that type of person a sociopath, others may not. From all i have learned this is sociopathic behaviour. He won't EVER let go of his commitment to make my life hell.

 

[Pencil]

but sociopaths/psychopaths specifically.

I know that. But:
1) it was the labels that unleashed the storm.
2) I spoke about this to a friend who is a psychologist, and she pointed out that there is enormous overlap and comorbidities, so finding a 'pure' sociopath might be tricky - and all those at the bad end of the spectrum are very much the same, irrespective of the specific label - perhaps because of diagnostic weaknesses and / or comorbidities
3) the vast majority are never diagnosed, and so we can suspect them of being sociopaths / psychopaths / narcissists, but we can't be sure.

 

[radicalgratitude]

so finding a 'pure' sociopath might be tricky - and all those at the bad end of the spectrum are very much the same, irrespective of the specific label - perhaps because of diagnostic weaknesses and / or comorbidities
3) the vast majority are never diagnosed, and so we can suspect them of being sociopaths / psychopaths / narcissists, but we can't be sure.

Well that settles that. Who wants ice cream?

 

[shimmerz]

Mint chocolate please. Double scoop, waffle cone. Then.... back to posting.

 

[Deleted member 28403]

Well, I managed to do some weight loss, gimme ice cream.