University Is Stonewalling Me

[DancingBull]

Hi All. Looking for some suggestions regarding a university issue that is really troubling me. Please don't hold back if you think I am off-base here. I need some objectivity.

I had to withdraw from a university course due to acute onset of PTSD during the term I was taking the course. The university ostensibly has this process whereby you can submit a request for financial forgiveness in order to receive a refund. The university's policy on this is in fact extremely (and in my view, intentionally) non-specific and I have found the process to be utterly non-transparent and legally reprehensible. Along with your request, you must submit "medical documentation" that addresses the following: why (generally) you were unable to complete the course; timeframe for when the problem started; and treatment course. So, I provided a doctor's note addressing the specified criteria.

The university ultimately came back with a response letter declining my request based on "lack of documentation." I can handle my request being declined. What I have an issue with is that they are basing their decision on lack of documentation when, in fact, I provided it and could certainly produce more. So, I asked for clarification regarding the decision, explaining that I am glad to provide further documentation but need to know what, specifically, is required before I turn over further private medical information.

For months now I have been getting the runaround from various people, claiming they aren't responsible for the decision and punting my request to other offices. I finally got a response this week saying the exact same information (lack of documentation) that I received months ago, and saying that the decision stands unless I can provide "additional documentation." And again they don't define what this additional documentation means.

What I feel is an extremely reasonable request for clarification is being met with responses such as "I can see that you are angry." I find that totally demeaning and distracting from the real issue. This is not about feelings, this is not personal - this is about a university that claims there's this process in place for extenuating circumstances such as these, but is in fact doing everything possible to stonewall me. And actually I am angry. I'm angry that this university may be doing this to many more students than just me, that they may not consider PTSD to be a medical problem (we all know how very untrue that is), and yes, there's the financial aspect as well, though that is very minor in comparison to my desire for justice. Not to mention they have violated my personal identifying information by sending responses intended for me to inaccurate email addresses that were never provided to them and are not associated with me in any way.

Rant over. Am I being unreasonable? Would you advise pursuing this legally? Is there any free legal service that takes up cases like these and would they have to name me in the complaint (which would be a public document, and thus, a no-go for me)?

 

[Elsa23]

Hey,


Sorry to hear you're being given the run around. You don't need additional stress. I had a problem with my University being unreasonable - although not PTSD related. Everyone agreed that my department were being utterly unfair (I got the "I understand you're angry response") but nobody seemed willing to do anything about it.


I don’t know how things work where you are, do you have a Student’s Union / something similar?? I found mine brilliant. They were the only ones to help. They tried to fight my case on my behalf and offered to accompany me to any meetings and act as a witness. In the end I had to go above people's heads and wrote a letter of complaint to the vice-president of the university. I detailed what had happened in chronological order. After a week I was called to a meeting, "the impossible" became possible in a matter of minutes and I was given an apology. It was a really tough few weeks and I found it draining. The unfairness though nearly motivated me because I knew what they were doing was just wrong. You deserve a proper explanation. If you can support everything with medical documents they really don’t have grounds to refuse you.


I hope you get sorted out. I would advise you to keep a diary of every bit of correspondence or conversation you have and the exact date and time. If you haven't already, try and write it down now. If you come to make a complaint, it makes writing it so much easier and also makes your argument stronger. Throw the evidence in front of them and they don't have wiggle room. I know it's tough but I reckon you can really kick up a stink about this if you have to. If you need any help at all feel free to message me or post on here. I've gone through a similar complaint (I also study Law) you have a very strong case.


Best wishes

 

[darrenS]

firstly ..when you lift the lid on some of the majors , you find lies and deceit , ive been there , been railroaded and left in disgust....i would firstly see the ombudsman at the uni or someone in a similar position...they are usually the ones who can get things moving

 

[Elsa23]

Oh and on the email thing - yes that is a breach of your data protection. You could give them a serious headache about that. It’s a serious offence for an Institution to make (I’ve worked in this area). Depending where you live there is likely to be some kind of watchdog that would investigate this for free on your behalf.

I know it's common in the UK and Ireland that Universities hold free legal aid clinics (FLAC) for the public. It’s just a consultation, where you can ask for some advice. It's free (obviously) and completely confidential. Not sure where you're from but there is definitely advice out there for you free.

I'm not sure how you have communicated with the offices so far. From now on I would suggest putting everything in writing/email so you have proof, if you haven't already. You may have already done this, but if not, write a letter or email:

1. Explaining the situation so far.
2. Asking for a description of what further documents are needed.
3. Stating that if they cannot provide this information then to advise who is responsible for this area.
4. Information regarding an appeal.

Send the same letter to every office that may be respnsible (if you were advised different ones) and state who told you to contact them. If you have nor reply, write again, refer to you original letter and the date you sent it. Request confirmation that they have received this letter. I would correspond directly with the official office who has sent the letter telling you your documents are not sufficent. They need to provide the information of what is sufficient / the grounds for why what you have provided thus far is not enough. If they can't provide you with this information, they need to tell you who can. If that office can't help, go back to the original one. It's their reponsibility to find out, so just keep going back to them. Do your best to keep the process in writing, that way you have a paper trail. It's tedious and frustrating, but eventually it does work. They have responsibilities and if they know you have written evidence to prove that they are not meeting them, they will cave. Keep the faith!! Again, pm me anytime.

 

[joeylittle]

I'm angry that this university may be doing this to many more students than just me, that they may not consider PTSD to be a medical problem (we all know how very untrue that is), and yes, there's the financial aspect as well, though that is very minor in comparison to my desire for justice.

Is this a public or a private university, and are you in the US?

You might be more interested in justice, but I can assure you, they are more interested in finance. Honestly, I'm sure it has nothing to do with PTSD specifically. Mental health in general, more likely.

So, what they are looking for are multiple documents. Lets say it was a badly broken leg - you'd have a ER report plus x rays., a follow up x-ray, a standard prescription for "do this, don't do this", all very quantifiable and not debatable.

OK: lets say it was a suicide attempt - there's a medical record there as well, when admitted, how long inpatient, recommended course of recovery/stress/activity levels, psychiatrist report. But that's because there was a medically actionable thing.

The invisible mental health disorders are harder to quantify. If, after you stopped attending class, you could account for your "illness" period and your "recovery time" in any more explicit way, they would have a harder time turning you down - but still, generally, their goal is to keep your tuition.

Did you have an inciting incident that caused you to need to stop school? Have you been doing any additional therapy (attending a group or IOP, therapy "homework", support treatments like exercise, yoga, massage, acupuncture, anything? Do you also have a psychiatrist? Really, think about everything that you did during the time off to work towards improving - and then think about how to document it and connect it to a prescribed course of care.

I'm curious about public v. private tho, and what nation you are in.

 

[Eleanor]

Write a letter to the Provost or whomever the chief academic officer is, CC the head of Finance and the President and if they have an ombudsman or diversity officer or office for students with disabilities cc them to with the story and the demand. Ask for a timely response, give them a deadline.

If they don't give you a real answer , threaten to go to the EEOC. (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ) who are in charge of enforcing the ADA. If you have a faculty advisor (or just a sympathetic faculty) ask them to help.

No you are not being in the least unreasonable. And yes I would pursue it legally. It is hard to know if it would go anywhere. If there are local disability advocates that might help - they'd be a good place to look for a friendly lawyer.

 

[DancingBull]

I left out some important information. I’m in the U.S., and I was actually just taking this course as a transient student. I’m enrolled in a graduate program through a different (and by orders of magnitude, better) university and was taking this course as an elective towards my degree. It was all done long distance/online, though the university is brick and mortar as well.

Elsa23, thanks very much for taking the time to put together such a thoughtful response. I’m so sorry to hear you went through a similar issue with your university and am glad you were eventually able to get it resolved. It’s interesting they gave you the same “you must be angry” comment. Part of me wondered whether they were treating me as if I were this Hollywood version of a PTSD maniac, but I figure I’m overthinking it and probably giving them too much credit. And it sounds like your issue was unrelated to PTSD, so I guess this must be a classic stonewalling tactic. Yes, I definitely get what you mean about this giving you motivation due to the blatant injustice… I just can’t seem to let this one go.

I’m very appreciative of your specific legal expertise/view that I’m not off-base and may actually have a case here. Student Union is a good thought - I’m just not sure if these university services are available to me given my transient status there. Yea, I think we might have something similar here as far as free legal aid clinics. Maybe I can look into that. I was kinda hoping there was some sort of medical or PTSD type legal cause.

I have zero concerns about being able to provide documentation. I’ve got multiple credible medical professionals who can easily produce whatever is needed (and have offered to do so), because that’s just how straight forward of a case this is. I’ve got everything in writing (all of the emails to/from the university, chronological order etc.), to include me putting them on notice about all of the aforementioned concerns and that I would pursue this through other channels (including legally) if necessary. I also already pointed out the data protection breach. I’ve got it all. The very last email I sent provided a detailed chronological account and described (once again) my request for clarification regarding what, specifically, additional documentation they need. I figured they would have to take that seriously. Nope. In response, I got the “you are angry” email, so now I’ve gone and told them that I will be pursuing this through other channels since it is clear they are unwilling to provide me with a response and are continuing to give me the run around. Here’s the full body of the email (by the way, this person’s position is the associate provost and dean of the graduate school):

“I can see that you are angry and that there is nothing that I can say that will satisfy your concern.If you wish to pursue your request for financial forgiveness, you are going to have to further document your medical claim. Without additional documentation, the decision stands.”

Mind you, she hasn’t said a damn thing! That’s the whole point. Previously, she claimed that she is not the one responsible for the decision (despite the fact that it is her signature on the response letter), but that she would direct my inquiry to the appropriate office (“financial services office”) and get back to me. So, do you recommend that I just try to find a phone number (or preferably, email address) at random for the financial services office and try to circumvent her somehow? I honestly don’t even think she’s been reading any of my correspondence, and certainly not acting on it.

Thanks again for all your advice. I’d like to take you up on your generous offer to PM you but I’m not currently registered.

Darren S, thanks for your support and suggestions. The ombudsman is a good one, but similar to the student union suggestion, I’ll need to see if those services are available to me given my status at the university.

 

[joeylittle]

“I can see that you are angry and that there is nothing that I can say that will satisfy your concern.If you wish to pursue your request for financial forgiveness, you are going to have to further document your medical claim. Without additional documentation, the decision stands.”

I work in a university with tight purse-strings, so that's my info base.

Here's where I do think you are being unreasonable: If you can more thoroughly document, using more than one source, and directly covering every inch of the information they asked for - it would not surprise me if you got your money back.

You gave them one piece, from one doctor. Instead of getting stalled out at waiting for them to tell you what kind of documentation, is there a reason you can't you just re-submit with more documentation, and see if that works before you go for a higher court?

I think you need to accept that you forfeit your right to total control of your medical records when you are in a situation where they are required in order for you to get what you want. Or, maybe better put: you can keep your privacy and forfeit the tuition, or engage in the process (forfeit privacy, within limited scope) and get your money back. Fighting that particular battle would only be possible (I believe) if you were at a public institution.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Whatever you do, register with disability services. Even if you never use their regular services, ie exam allowances, breaks, etc, it will give you leverage in case you have a sudden onset of symptoms in the future as your PTSD will be documented with your school.

 

[DancingBull]

Wow, thanks, everyone, for all of your very thoughtful and excellent suggestions.

JoeyLittle, it’s a public university. I agree with you, their interest (as well any corporation) is clearly financial. I also agree with you that this is about mental health issues and not PTSD specifically. Thank you very much for explaining what they couldn’t; I now understand the issue. To answer your questions, yes, I had an incident just prior to the start of the semester that then ultimately resulted in PTSD (as diagnosed by a trauma therapist, primary care physician, and psychiatrist). I’ve had several symptoms over many years, but did not develop PTSD until this incident… it was the final straw. I am still unable to be in school at this time (I was going part-time because I work) and had to subsequently withdraw from my real university when the issues persisted. My real university was completely understanding, assured me my health was the most important, and said they look forward to my return. I’ve been in ongoing treatment since the incident/diagnosis last year and have even dabbled in homeopathy and accupuncture, which again, could be documented.

I understand your point about the documentation, but I believe the onus is on them to provide specifics of what they are looking for. As it was, I had to engage multiple times to get clarity on the three criteria that I listed above since their official policy says nothing other than “provide official, verifiable documentation as evidence of the extenuating circumstances.” I’m sure my therapist could write a very detailed letter for me, but I just really don’t feel that they are within their rights to give me a blanket request detailing my trauma, symptoms and treatment. F*ck. That’s probably why mental health cases are never pursued. I am so frustrated right now.

Eleanor, thank you for the specific guidance. Funny that you said to write the provost since I’ve apparently been communicating with the associate provost (although I guess there must be an overall provost for the entire university and not just the graduate school). I guess I am just sick of threatening them. I feel like I need to move on at this point, because it’s not getting me anywhere. I suppose I could make one last attempt to write the other individuals you listed (if I can actually find proper email addresses), although I really do not want my “story” replicating through the university, especially given their apparent issues with data protection.

 

[joeylittle]

I believe the onus is on them to provide specifics of what they are looking for.

I get it, and I hear you, I really do - but it's not on them at all. They are under no obligation to provide a process for refunding tuition after the official drop/refund date. So, they are providing a process. Yes, it's absolutely intentionally vague (in order to skirt HIPPA probably, in a public university) - but that is their perogative. You'll either give them what they want or they won't give you your money.

It really sounds like you can thoroughly document, so I'd say, just go ahead and do it. I think the actual privacy risks are very small, negligible.

And just to say, again, if this helps you put together the right stuff - they are looking for an accounting of where you have been during the time you would have been going to school. The case is actually exponentially more difficult to make when it's a distance learning course, so you'll need your documents to specifically reflect things about being required to eliminate stress and daily time spent on recovery issues.

Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic about how these things go down.

 

[Eleanor]

Write "Personal and Confidential" in the title of the email. Definitely the Provost. Make it clear (Again) that you are HAPPY to provide them with additional documentation, but since the treating physician's letter is universally the standard for establishing disability claims you are as yet in the dark as to what more they might need... Ask what DOES meet the standard, ask for examples of cases (generic, with identifiers stripped of course) where relief was granted. Since it is a state institution, you might see if there is a state version of the EEOC.

Getting universities to respond to disability claims is tough. If you didn't pay a pile of money it might well not be worth your pain and heartache to pursue it past bumping it upstairs to the Provost. Write a straightforward account of your experience and the outcome and send it to the local paper, and post it on whatever sites review the U. That'll call them out for it, and maybe if there are others (there are surely others) somebody will get excited. Universities hate it when people "tell."

U. email addresses all follow the same template. So unless the Provost is John Smith (in which case you need to know which [email protected] it is... you can usually figure them out.:D

Since it is a state U there is probably some state law that requires them to do this... if you contact their disability services folks they can likely tell you what the law is and you can look up cases. Nothing like throwing around some chapter and verse to scare the pants off people.:geek::devilish: