What Happens In A Church... Can't Be Talked About With My Therapist?! What?!

[seedling]

I was wondering, as well, if your reactions may become less intense if your deep well of early rage is lessened by working on all that early stuff in therapy (acknowledging in that, that it may be difficult and over some time).

I just read something in my latest therapy book, also, that our rage opens up a place inside us where the work can be done. So, that kind of reaction/feeling can help produce results in the long run and also be dissipated as those old voices of the past get some real-world time and attention. If I come across the quote again I will post it here so I get the meaning correct.

 

[ghotiff]

Regarding not coping when someone will not respect boundaries....I don't know if this is healthy but this is what I do....I pre-test everyone before I let them in.

It was more obvious as a teenager when I would regularly say no to boyfriends just to guage their reactions to my no. But even friends now....I regularly say no, and Interstingly they just stop immediately and wait for more information. It's become such a part of who I am that it's only right now I realise how much I still do it. Eg they ask if I want a coffee, I say no, they know me so they wait and do not re offer....and they would NEVER make me a coffee if I had said no.

Maybe you could practice saying no to really small things (like coffee) and use it as practice, but also learning more about how the other person respects boundaries.

Hope that helps. I'm really sorry your church let you down.

 

[Ivan the Elder]

All I can say is to find another church. I had a very good time at church today. It has been helping me more than anything else. One very important thing that it brought back to the front of my mind is the concept of forgiveness. I have forgiven my former wife for everything she has done even though some of it was things that I never would have done that for if I hadn't gone back to church. I have told her that she is forgiven even though it changes nothing. It has made a very big difference in how I am feeling. We will not ever be getting back together but that is not the problem I have been having. I have been constantly reviewing what she is to blame for which is nearly everything, in my mind. But now that I have forgiven her for all of it there is no point in me reviewing it over and over.

I was also asked if I wanted to do the usual short bible reading that one of the congregation reads every service. I love reading to people so I immediately accepted and even had a few minutes to review what I was going to read. It went very well and I even had compliments from the priests and some of the congregation. I like to read with the little bit of emphasis that a preacher normally uses but in a much less strident tone. I didn't even trip over any of the words, which really surprised me. I haven't done this kind of reading for many years. It has been a very good day. Sundays are starting to look like the best day of the week now.

This is how going to worship should be. It seems I have picked a very good church.

I even put up some wallpaper on my computer that has a picture of a very pretty girl (with clothing <grin>) just to remind me that my ex wife isn't the only person I can live with.

 

[Kailani]

That sounds ridiculous. Bible studies are not confidential; the whole purpose of church is to learn the Bible and share it. If they want it confidential they should have you sign a form. Sounds flaky to me. I've attended several Calvary chapels and they were wonderful beyond wonderful but you said this was a Calvary church. Maybe different one. You were treating a medical condition so too bad for them. Some people need oxygen and you needed a tape recorder. I am sooooo sorry you are getting more stress from that. Remember church is not God. Best wishes for you!!!!!!

 

[anonymous]

Some people need oxygen and you needed a tape recorder.

Wonderful analogy.

Remember church is not God.

Exactly!

I am glad to see so many helpful people in this thread. @Justmehere you will be healed from this soon. I will do prayers for your healing.

 

[scout86]

There's not much to add to all this. I'd just like to suggest that it usually takes time to master a new skill. If you're learning to downhill ski, you start on the bunny slope. You're learning a new skill with the whole "Saying 'no' " thing. We all make mistakes while we're learning. And that wasn't the bunny slope. That was one of the slopes where they recommend only the most experienced try to take it on. There were a LOT of other ways they could have handled things and they made some rather bad choices. If that hadn't fed into a problem you're working on, it probably would have turned out differently. But, you probably need to practice "No" awhile longer with those who actually accept it as an answer.

@joeylittle , what you said about how all this played out was awesome and VERY helpful to me too.

 

[Justmehere]

Thanks for all the support and encouragement. Especially for the reminders to be patient with myself. It really helped to read that today.

I told my therapist everything that happened. I didn’t want to talk about it, she encouraged me to tell her. She had her own opinion about the mess… but she didn’t spend much time on it. She’s not much of a problem-solving-current life problems therapist. She just wants me to be safe and stable enough to get to the real problem: the trauma.

My therapist comes from the perspective that getting into a mess like this is actually a defense mechanism. She says it’s a way to have something other than past trauma to work on in therapy. I'm also repeating the pattern. She doesn’t think I’m borderline, but you are “very much in the pattern of the abused woman who keeps trying to go back to her abuser or finding new ones, to try and have a different ending instead of working on it in here.”

“It’s going to hurt to stop and face that you can’t have that different ending to what happened to you as a kid.”

Nothing like a trauma therapist to cut through my crap and get to the heart of a matter. Geez, she's good.

I’m so glad for what you @joeylilttle pointed out and the suggestions you and others gave too. It really helped me to hear my therapist out today and not get stuck in avoidance, or shame, or repeating the pattern again today.

She very much thinks I can have a different future, and we talked a lot about how to handle all of this in a better way now, and how to get out of this pattern. She kept trying to get me to be nice and kind to myself too.

Right now, this is stuck in my brain: “It’s going to hurt to stop and face that you can’t have a different ending to what happened to you in the past.” Thinking about that shifts how I see all of this.

The pastor called my mother, who lives far away, and apparently told her that he wants me to call him. He told her I’m not allowed back at the church. Ugh. My mother severely neglected as a kid, and it really hurt to hear it from her, of all people, once again.

A therapist in town called me, and said he wants me to call him and schedule a time to meet with her and him.

I told her no thanks. She tried to talk me into it anyhow. I wanted to explain and defend my decision…I was mad and triggered she didn't take no for an answer.

Instead I let her go on, then I replied, “I will take this into consideration and get back to you.” Then I hung up! Thanks @joeylittle for the suggestions/reminders on things to say, it was so helpful. It worked so much better to say this than anything else.

I called the pastor and left a message. "I was wrong to scream and swear, and I’m taking steps to deal with the mistakes I made and to not do it again, even when pushed. If he needs to reach me, he can leave a message and I will get back to him later."

It was progress for me to say that, and only that. No excuses, no trying to fix, explain, defend, or get validation.

He didn’t call me after that. Someone else with the church did. To remind me I'm not welcome there.

Someone else called from the church, but I deleted the message without listening.

All I’m thinking about now is how I was a kid who was invaded in the worst ways, and needed to be heard, but I was ignored, to the point of nearly dying. That really hurt. It really hurts now. That pain, and this drive to be validated, feels like the most shameful and vulnerable thing about me.

 

[seedling]

Instead I let her go on, then I replied, “I will take this into consideration and get back to you.” Then I hung up!

:tup::D:tup::tup::angelic::angelic::cool::p:D:hug::playful::tup::singing::D:tup:

Yippee, *jumping for joy*, yahoo, way to go!!!

Wow, I think you just got your better ending, right now, in the here and now. What a great way to put an end to their crap.

You are a good example for me. I'm going to try to apply all this to my situation at work where I feel like I'm stuck in my old stuff to my own detriment.

Sorry about having your mother put in the middle of it.

Hang in there with that old pain. You've chosen a new path.

 

[Ivan the Elder]

Justmehere, I do know how you feel. It is a major part of my PTSD. I was badly physically abused by my father and sexually abused by his mother. I was also physically abused by my other grandmother. All of these events have caused changes in how I have lived my life. I haven't been fully aware of it until I was so badly treated earlier this year by my ex wife and especially by the Government psychiatric institution I was placed in early this year for three weeks. Then my PTSD hit the roof and all of this has come back, full force. Many of the long past events I was mostly able to successfully deny nearly all of the time, but no longer. Now I have all of it to deal with, all at once and by myself. I have no local family and very few friends to help me. The only real friends I have now are my therapist and some old friends I have found at the church. That is finally helping and the first really good help I have in the over one half year since this all began. My therapist is good but what she is able to do is very limited, simply by time.

The people here are one of the best sources of help I have found.

I am NOT suggesting you do this but if I was in your shoes I would be very tempted to call the church and leave a message along the lines of: "I am not concerned that you will not allow me back. Many friends of mine have suggested that I should find a different church to attend. I am taking their advice."

That will leave them wondering just who these friends are and just how did such word get out about them. Like I said, I do not suggest you actually do this but it is the sort of thing I would do, even if it is the wrong thing to do. It makes me feel better to just think about it. Yeah, I am sick....

 

[scout86]

I thought of something this afternoon, along the lines of @joeylittle 's suggestion. There are some people (especially family members) where my T encourages me to deal with them as much as possible only through email. He says that forces THEM to "think" rather than just spew emotions around (at least to a point), and it gives ME the time and space to compose a response, rather than just "react". I've started not answering the phone for a similar reason. People can leave a message and I can think about how I want to deal with them BEFORE I have to deal with them. I mentioned that to my T the other day (thinking he might give me a bad time for dodging phone calls, because I also have a problem RETURNING them). Got what I took to be an approving smile out of him instead.

"Practice" ;)

 

[Justmehere]

Oh crap.

When this all first happened, I started calling therapists in a hurry to find one to meet with the church. One of them talked to me on the phone fro about 10 minutes. The next day, I called them all back and told them, nevermind...

The one that I spoke to, Joyce, texted me tonight. She said she emailed "Pastor Tom" about her clinical opinion that the help I need is out of the scope of her practice, and that I had made an appointment with her about this matter, and that I canceled it. She further shared with him that a mediator might be better suited to meet my and their needs. She also shared her opinion of what I need for communication to be more effective.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY PRIVACY?!

I asked if I could have a copy of the email. She said no. "It was addressed to Pastor Tom, not you."

I asked if the email had any information in it about me? She reiterated her first text. ie yes, the email did have info about me.

I sarcastically asked her for a copy of the consent form I surely must have signed to allow her to release such personal information about me to a religious organization, on a non-secure email service no less...

She texted back only, "Do not ever contact me again."

(I never signed any consent form.)

I placed a call to the licensing board. I confirmed what she did was illegal and unethical breach of privacy. I also searched the church directory, and I found out she is actually a member of this church.

I have already faxed off very simple and clear complaint to the licensing board and the Office for Civil Rights that enforces HIPAA regulations and I swear I am...

...now engaged in a fight that is stupid.

It's like I am suddenly engaged in a proxy war with this church through reporting the hell out of this ethics trashing member. For what purpose?

I lasted two days without engaging this nonsense. I'm like a fly to poisoned honey.

 

[seedling]

I swear I am...

...now engaged in a fight that is stupid.

Not necessarily true. I think you did very well to report her. You don't need to go any further than that if you don't want to. You certainly don't need to talk to her or anyone that represents the church.
You filed a complaint. End of story.

You stood your ground in a clear and rational way.