The mistakes we make with boundaries

[blackemerald1]

Well done @TruthSeeker - ah a lot of ppl would have given him a biff to go with that request. :cautious:

 

[blackemerald1]

My problem with boundaries is I make them and then when people complain about them I second guess myself and start to worry that I'm being anti-social by having that boundary. I'm unsure of what is a normal boundary to begin with.

 

[Teasel]

Ok to ask how you set those boundaries @blackemerald1 ?

I've noticed something about boundary setting with Mr. and my brother. Setting a boundary verbally just doesn't work.

Setting a boundary nonverbally, by my actions when they've crossed a line I'm not prepared to put up with, by removing myself from their company for example, does (broadly speaking).

 

[TruthSeeker]

@berlinda I used to set boundaries and then justify ....I mean really have a long f2f conversation about it justifying why I had to set the boundary (and then I'd talk myself out of it or readjust it cause they didn't like it) It wasn't simple.....and it sometimes created drama.

As time went on, I crafted it down to one sentence, (I've decided not to X anymore) but if I'm going to block, I think the person needs to know the reason so it doesn't appear that I'm just in a bad mood, ghosting, or being that crazy person "that's what they called me" then abuse me. Crazy and mean.

Some boundaries with people I've decided aren't going to be in my life- I just do-if I'm going to get ugly text, then I text back, I'm not accepting ugly texts anymore-then I block and it's done.

If it's my friend, and I need to pull away, or she does something that is just irritating me and we can fix it easily with a boundary, I talk about it f2f. So in my case, the how I set boundaries is dependent on the person, their anticipated reaction, and how I can set the boundary with the least amount of reaction.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well done @TruthSeeker ???

Thanks..

 

[Sideways]

Current boundary issue: finding the healthy middle ground between offering someone support and trying to rescue them. Conversely, finding the middle ground between empathy, and “this is your problem, not mine”.

Just staying put when I’ve set my boundaries. Having the self confidence to do that. Hard to do when you have a damaged self concept in the first place.

 

[blackemerald1]

Unfortunately for me, it usually happens post event.:wtf: Normally I'm ambushed by behaviour?

With a great deal of difficulty @berlinda. :sorry:

If I am pushed, and I do emphasise that ... to make a boundary I will walk away till I have completely worked out what happened and why. I'm uncertain lots of times if I am the 'offending' party... Unfortunately walking away is not in all circumstances sensible or practical.

Sometimes simply walking away indicates that they have stepped on me and I'm not happy. It's not ideal but it does work. Takes the anger, flashpoint, saying things that either of us may later regret away.

I don't have the tolerance of @TruthSeeker - in respect of touching. Because my knee jerk reaction to someone, a stranger and even then not a stranger, touching me anywhere unexpectedly, would have been faster and far more abrupt.

Setting a boundary verbally just doesn't work.

^I have mixed success with this. Some people want to argue me into exhaustion and I cannot do that so I then walk away. Lots of times verbalizing my boundary with someone seems to set them off. Which is counterproductive for sure.

I'm quite good at using the word: 'stop', putting up my hand open palm facing them... and just saying stop, repeatedly. When I've got to that point I'm very close to breaking down. So it's a last resort to enforce a boundary I suppose. Not sure. But most times.. after even the most aggressive onslaught, which has happened lately - it's saved me from throwing in the towel and leaving forever. That's good. I mean not good I had to get to my last option - especially when I cannot just walk away and they think I won't leave forever.

Setting a boundary nonverbally, by my actions when they've crossed a line I'm not prepared to put up with, by removing myself from their company for example, does (broadly speaking).

^So what do you say when you return? Do you return?

 

[TruthSeeker]

@blackemerald1 I'm not sure I'd describe my initial reaction as tolerance (although I like to be thought of as tolerant)....no, it's more "freeze" -my go to for being mishandled, physically abused, raped is freeze and don't make a public scene. Step 2-dissociate if I can't make it stop.

The last time, 2 years ago, I got molested at party by my abusers friend......it was a game, a clear intimidation tactic....so I froze.....This time I initially froze with the creep touching my shoulder and didn't initially react....I just moved away quietly....but was already starting to fog up and on alert when he touched me on my leg.....way too close for tolerance! Freezing and tolerance two very different things....

@berlinda -yeah, the stop-holding my hand thing up felt like I was going to explode inside (it was very new behavior)-I was ready for a melt down and would have likely made a really big bitchen scene if the hand stop thing didn't work....and so very glad the creep backed off.....cause I didn't have a plan B.

 

[DharmaGirl]

I've been thinking about this a lot. It seems when I set a new boundary with someone, I get different results. I had a "friend" who would talk about the mentally ill people she worked with in a voice dripping with hatred and disgust. Having been inpatient so many times, this would upset me to no end. I set my boundary by asking her not to talk about the people she worked for like that with me. It triggers me. She really blew up. She went nuts. She slowed it down though, but then attacked me over the boundary I set many times. I say attacked because she used stuff from my personal traumas to justify her talking to me about it. I was finally triggered so badly I tried to kill myself after a phone call, and was in the ICU for a week. She called me and told me she wasn't responsible for my crazy train derailing. Boundaries didn't work in that situation, so I cut her off.

BUT, I have found that many people don't like boundaries. I may set them, but then there is holding to them. Now, even though it might be annoying, I just repeat Stop. This is what you are doing. Stop. It's not friendly, but when I set a boundary, the most important thing is keeping it set.

There was a man standing in line behind me at the Motor Vehicles office, and he was standing so close his chin was almost resting on my shoulder. I told him I have PTSD, and would he mind stepping back, and he apologized and stepped back. He respected it after that.

And of course that's not what boundaries are about at all. They are about what I do when others behave as they do and their behaviour is unacceptable to me in some way. Eg walk away, don't see them again or what have you.

Do you think you have the right to enforce your boundaries though, @berlinda? Does it always have to be walk away? If you ask someone to respect your boundary and they don't, what then? I will restate my boundary since I don't believe walking away is always the answer. I'm really curious about this, since others can see what I can't.

 

[Teasel]

Brain not functioning well to form an answer at the mo but I shall answer asap and am reading replies. Tis a difficult thing for me to get my head round too.

I don't think you can enforce others to behave as you want tho no. And goodness knows I tried to explain my boundaries to my abusive ex for a ridiculous no of years so I've for sure been making that mistake too.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I've been thinking about this a lot. It seems when I set a new boundary with someone, I get different results. I had a "friend" who would talk about the mentally ill people she worked with in a voice dripping with hatred and disgust. Having been inpatient so many times, this would upset me to no end. I set my boundary by asking her not to talk about the people she worked for like that with me. It triggers me. She really blew up. She went nuts. She slowed it down though, but then attacked me over the boundary I set many times. I say attacked because she used stuff from my personal traumas to justify her talking to me about it. I was finally triggered so badly I tried to kill myself after a phone call, and was in the ICU for a week. She called me and told me she wasn't responsible for my crazy train derailing. Boundaries didn't work in that situation, so I cut her off.

BUT, I have found that many people don't like boundaries. I may set them, but then there is holding to them. Now, even though it might be annoying, I just repeat Stop. This is what you are doing. Stop. It's not friendly, but when I set a boundary, the most important thing is keeping it set.

There was a man standing in line behind me at the Motor Vehicles office, and he was standing so close his chin was almost resting on my shoulder. I told him I have PTSD, and would he mind stepping back, and he apologized and stepped back. He respected it after that.



Do you think you have the right to enforce your boundaries though, @berlinda? Does it always have to be walk away? If you ask someone to respect your boundary and they don't, what then? I will restate my boundary since I don't believe walking away is always the answer. I'm really curious about this, since others can see what I can't.

I've set boundaries that made other people walk away. Being polite and respectful were my wishes for my new home, my last home had bad vibes.....lots of ugliness, and I didn't want the new one to be the same. The few times family came to my house, they wanted to start stuff in my home, they were told to leave and told why on the way out the door. They were also told that when they wanted a respectful relationship...they were welcome back (not the x). Haven't seen hide nor hair of them since. I honestly think it is dumb to have to tell someone a basic value (giving respect) is expected when you visit....but they are family, right? They are so special, I didn't deserve respect...... I'm the odd one.....to expect respectful communication breeds positive...we didn't have the same value set..

 

[Teasel]

Gonna try answering bit by bit cause my brain just can't hold it all in my head at one time :D

Unfortunately for me, it usually happens post event.:wtf: Normally I'm ambushed by behaviour?

With a great deal of difficulty @berlinda. :sorry:

Very often the case for me too I think. It seems like often times, in others company, I'm not fully present, so oftentimes I can't even understand fully what has happened until later when I'm alone and more me again. Is that what you mean?

I will walk away till I have completely worked out what happened and why. I'm uncertain lots of times if I am the 'offending' party...

Me too for sure, frustrating not being sure of my perceptions.

Unfortunately walking away is not in all circumstances sensible or practical.

Oh yes agreed, is only one option and not always practical or possible.

Sometimes simply walking away indicates that they have stepped on me and I'm not happy. It's not ideal but it does work. Takes the anger, flashpoint, saying things that either of us may later regret away.

Yeah, I've found it a useful new skill for me! In some situations it's all I needed to do.

And like I say, I used to have the mistaken idea about boundaries and thinking others get to define my reality. And so it felt extremely important to have others see things from my perspective.

I really didn't know it was even an option to just let it go or walk away or not care what others think or be ok with them thinking something bad about me.

Or in the case of Mr, being downright emotionally abusive and insistent that it was me who was the problem. Like the way I used to be, I would turn myself inside out trying to figure out how to get through to him that his behaviour hurt me, and have him see things from my perspective.

But I think he cured me of wanting to do that anymore :D

So I walk away.

^I have mixed success with this. Some people want to argue me into exhaustion and I cannot do that so I then walk away. Lots of times verbalizing my boundary with someone seems to set them off. Which is counterproductive for sure.

Yeah absolutely. I don't know if I'm right about this but I think if someone can't or won't hear your side of things, then telling them your boundaries is not gonna work. I mean I think the majority of people, if you tell them when you did this or that, it hurt me, will at least hear you even if they don't agree with you.

But for Mr and my brother, they tended to either ridicule or argue into exhaustion or some other not particularly reasonable response. And with my brother, walking away is enough. With Mr, he's mostly only extremely unreasonable when he's drunk, so there's no talking to be done with him at least till the next day.

So I don't know, when I'm talking about setting a boundary with either of them, it's not like setting a boundary with most people heh.

I'm quite good at using the word: 'stop', putting up my hand open palm facing them... and just saying stop, repeatedly. When I've got to that point I'm very close to breaking down. So it's a last resort to enforce a boundary I suppose. Not sure.

Sounds very good, understand it's difficult though if you can only do it when you're at your limit. I'd like to learn how to manage my reactions a lot better too.

But most times.. after even the most aggressive onslaught, which has happened lately - it's saved me from throwing in the towel and leaving forever. That's good. I mean not good I had to get to my last option - especially when I cannot just walk away and they think I won't leave forever.

Yeah, good and not good.

Don't really know your situation. But I know for me, that having been useless at boundaries effectively meant I kept putting up with them being crossed.

^So what do you say when you return? Do you return?

All sorts of things I suppose, am still learning after all, and am still living in the same house as Mr.

I generally nowadays walk away as soon as I know he's drunk and or being aggressive. And often send him a brief text the next day. Sometimes I'll just ask if he's going to be drunk when he gets home. Occasionally it's a really angry text. And the goal is to leave, for good - working on it.

Learning to set boundaries and keep to them with other more reasonable people might be a whole new learning thing I'm not sure. Though I think my new way of seeing things is already changing how I am with others too.

Feels a bit insecure making writing all that but hey :shy: