Other Let's talk about torture.

[Freida]

It's being forced to watch that's just undoing me right now. Watching someone else go thru it, knowing they cant escape, listening to them scream, seeing every moment and not being allowed to look away.. I know in one way Im lucky because I didn't know her and that many of you had to watch loved ones or friends go thru it. I can't even imagine how soul crushing that would be.

I've made peace with the survivor guilt and the not telling anyone and blah blah and i thought i knew what actually happened to her. I thought I watched it all unfold. But then I did emdr and tore the lid right off that lie. At the time I was so terrified over what was going to happen next that I never really registered what was happening to her. My job was to understand the instructional part of the video, not to acknowledge the person in it. That was the whole basis of my survivor guilt.

But now?
It's still pretty foggy but oh my god. The things that I saw that man do to her. The pain and anguish he put her thru. The vile, disgusting things he made her do. How he used his tools to cause terror and agony and humiliation. Forcing her to cooperate so he could get it on film. And the screaming. They were in some kind of warehouse, so she didn't have to be gagged. She could scream. For hours and hours, until her voice broke and she couldn't make a sound..

I couldn't ever look away because looking away meant Punishment. So I had to watch as he destroyed her. He spent hours torturing her and he enjoyed every minute of it. He would look at the camera and laugh and smile. Little by little as she got weaker, it was like she was just dissolving into nothingness. And the more she wasted away the worse things got as he worked to get the reactions he wanted. And at the end, when he was done with her, he picked her up for the camera, cut her throat, dropped her and just left her in a pool of blood, and walked off. Because she didn't matter after that.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm really struggling with this.
Really struggling.
And really hoping the memories don't get any clearer.
But I don't think I'm going to be that lucky.

 

[Rose White]

I’m also deeply sorry and sad about the damage that one human did to multiple people. No words for how evil someone is to do that.

But also…Proud of you @Freida for getting that out. That’s big. You are so heckin’ brave. A lot of work to get to this place.

 

[Freida]

Need some thoughts from the been there crew!

Told T I remember what broke me. She asked if I wanted to talk about. Uh..I've already told you about two other things. So that'll be a big nope to this one.
She didn't push, but she did give me some things to ponder.

Why am I so against telling her? Well, duh. icky/nasty/shameful/disgusting/painful//blahblahblah
No body needs to know this about me.

What do I think will will happen if I tell someone?
Run for the hills, wont be able to handle it, blah blah blah

Do I think that applies to her and other t
Crap. trick question!

She thinks that keeping it to myself is part of the shame spiral, and that sharing it with someone safe will allow me to see it from another view, just like all the others.

So - the question is.... How much have you told t (or anyone else) about the torture and did it make any difference in the long run?

 

[Weemie]

So - the question is.... How much have you told t (or anyone else) about the torture and did it make any difference in the long run?

I didn't technically tell her, but I kind of talked around it until she guessed what it was. I still can't really talk about it openly, but having access to someone who is aware and able to respond logically does make a difference. When I was deep in the grip of things, I started reading Iris Cheng's work which still remains the only body of work that I can find that describes an event similar to what I went through, with similar circumstances. Unfortunately there could be no clinical analysis as the individual was murdered shortly after. My opinion is that the more information is available to the public about these experiences and their impact, the better for everyone. Torture thrives in silence, don't give it to them.

 

[Sideways]

Why am I so against telling her? Well, duh. icky/nasty/shameful/disgusting/painful//blahblahblah
No body needs to know this about me.

Isn’t this exactly why we disclose things in therapy to a specialist? So that we can get to the other side of those feelings, and allow our brain to hold these memories in a different way? Without all the shame and disgust?

ETA That was a genuine question.

 

[Freida]

. I still can't really talk about it openly, but having access to someone who is aware and able to respond logically does make a difference

This helps

@Sideways ya, this is where I'm tangled up right now. I've started to be more honest with them about some of the actual torture crap but it doesn't make me feel "better". I just feel horrified that I admitted to it. I can't really even say it's shame, even though logically I know that's true

T says that I sound like I'm just reporting a fact or story - no emotions at all. It's a total disconnect

Maybe there's a different way to approach it that I'm just not seeing? Or is it a total lack of faith that being honest will help? Ughhhhhh. I guess I'm really not even sure what I'm tryingto ask. It's like I know I'm missing something but can't see what it is.

Which is probably why im blah blah blahing asking those of you who have already done it - looking for hope it will work even if I don't understand how

 

[Sideways]

it doesn't make me feel "better".

I think this is where you might be tripping yourself up. The goal, or expectations you have.

I think very few people would say that it makes you feel better. Usually, at first, it’s gonna feel worse. The end goal is to feel not much when you talk about it. But at first, all those emotions that you worry about having, that you’re bracing yourself for - that’s probably the short term goal. To actually pull those exact emotions out of their hiding place into the open where they can run their course.

Another little head trip is that if you dissociated, and shut down, during the trauma (freeze response) - there’s a very good chance your brain will do that again when it’s reminded of the experience. So you’ll need your grounding skills, and your Ts experience to help you refocus, when you go into auto-pilot.

 

[Freida]

To actually pull those exact emotions out of their hiding place into the open where they can run their course.

This helps - because ya, goals. Sigh. Im back to thinking I can "win". Yknow what's funny is that I'm not a competitive person irl.
So I guess the focus should be on finding the place they are hiding....ugh

Another little head trip is that if you dissociated, and shut down, during the trauma (freeze response) - there’s a very good chance your brain will do that again when it’s reminded of the experienc

I always forget this part - how things were then rather than how they are now.
But yes - this helps!

 

[boppy sprite]

Tossing this out there. Some years back a few dozen cops and their "nurse" drugged and tortured me.

The hellish thing is the sheer lack of response on the few occasions I have attempted to discuss it in even a cursory fashion with mental health professionals. They respond by sitting up straight, lose all affect, and then follow with either "and how are you now" or "and how do you feel about that?"

Few people are comfortable discussing it.

Freida, Friday, Weemie -- much respect to you for getting through what you've experienced and retaining a capacity for compassion.

 

[boppy sprite]

And this is why. Pain isn't the point. It's the means to the ends. The goal is taking away what makes you - you simply for their entertainment.

This resonates. When my torturers were finished and I had a few days to percolate in solitary, I managed to attempt suicide with a denture plate. Ex-wife's dog gnawed on it years ago leaving an edge. Good enough to generate arterial spray but not enough to bleed out. Timed it so they'd be occupied but a wandering guard saw the blood. Should have worked, really. I'd lost over 45% of my blood volume prior to the suicide attempt according to hospital records. There is no logical reason for me to still be breathing. I waited calmly as they breached the solitary unit and led me to be placed in 4-point restraints in a chair with a convex shape placed mid-back to interfere with breathing. They peppered up a spit-mask, placed it on and locked me away. I heard the attending nurse inform the commanding officer "he's probably going to die there." The guy in charge answered "f*ck him." One of the guards was pissed when I refused to posture for him to take a photo with his cell. I did make a decision to survive while sitting there.

It was casual entertainment for them and the outcome was almost immaterial.

A stumbling block for me has been letting go of thoughts of revenge and/or justice. Justice has always been out of the question, but revenge...at moments that has a lingering appeal. And I put it away. Being a good father and trying to be a human being is still more important. Always will be. But, christ, putting that rage and hurt away takes effort at times. I don't know how some of you do it.

Thanks for letting me babble.

 

[Weemie]

They respond by sitting up straight, lose all affect, and then follow with either "and how are you now" or "and how do you feel about that?"

This is the regrettable reality of the state that current therapy practice operates. Torture requires special skills, and those skills are very distinct from the skills therapists typically learn. Being a therapist to a torture survivor is a different job than being a therapist, period. Unfortunately, most therapists believe that these two jobs are the same, and they mistakenly advertise themselves as capable of doing both, when they are not. But there are clinicians out there who can do this work. You just have to dig through a lot of bullshit. Glad you felt comfortable enough to share here, man. This thread is always open for business! There I'll be, rambling about torture at 7AM in the morning, lmao.

 

[Weemie]

I kno we dont use trigger warnings here but Im gonna be real, this is some f*cked up shit. And this is a group of torture survivors and you might not be in a good place, and if u arent, then yeah, skip this one.

Spoiler

I'm gonna try to just say it and see what happens. I talk a big game but haven't put my money where my mouth is. "Silence is the destroyer," yeah that's all well and good, but I'm still not talking. And f*ck that shit. I was right, and I should say it.

My therapist who is a forensic psychologist with many years of experience has confirmed that I didn't break the law, and that I am not responsible for it. I was a kid. I didn't want to do it. I say that not to try and justify anything but because I need it to be clear that I was 8 years old. And I had just watched someone be murdered in front of me. And the dude who did it was a violent, sadistic f*ck.

When B caved in the dude's head, he made me f*ck with his body. This is why I use phrases like IHL, war crimes, crimes against humanity, etc. It's not just the rapes, and the trafficking, and the murders, and the shoot-outs. Its because I watched people defile literal corpses, which is described by the IHL handbook as "an outrage on human dignity."

Now, let's see if I can go 30 whole minutes without removing this. Why? Because, maybe I'm not the only one. Maybe all the other people here who secretly experienced the same shit are terrified to openly talk about it. Just, please, don't - I get it, that I'm disgusting, and it's outrageous. Just please don't call me names. This is the worst thing I have ever ben thru, and I think about it hundreds of times a day. I dont deserve kindness but ask for it anyway.

Spoiler

The dude who did this, the cops knew that he killed someone as well. They made a deal with him for him to testify against the ppl he was working for (one of my primary trainers actually) and they put him into witness protection after they spraypainted die rat and tried to firebomb his house, spray paint all over the court house, folks screaming at him in public.

So it is all well known, they just decided that persons life wasnt worth anything because at the time that he hit him in the head, he could have already been dead as he had overdosed. So either his crime was never considered murder even tho there is no evidence that the guy was dead beforehand, or they knew straight up that he was a murderer and just didnt give a f*ck.

The guy was unconscious in the chair beforehand. Idk if he was dead or not but he definitely f*ckin was afterward. This was my traffickers brother, my uncle.