Other Are triggers not always a mirror?

[Evie loves Sam]

In his semi-autobiographical book Memories, Dreams, Reflections, the pioneering psychologist Carl Jung said, “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

Is this always true? As an abuse survivor (working on it), what irritates me is the abuse and agression. I don't think that makes me an abusive or agressive person.

Just as I don't think experiencing a bereavement or witnessing death, is a mirror to living person.

Are trauma triggers different to the triggers everday people experience? Because its trauma? And Jung is talking about everday triggers of things that irritate, but not traumatise?

 

[OceanSpray]

Could be a little of both. Could also see it by breaking down the abusers motivations (rather than actions). For example, Abuser was neglected as a child and never did anything to change or heal so went on to neglect their own children. Those children will have triggers related to neglect that are similar to the same triggers related to neglect that Abuser has but they act on them differently. Hopefully that made sense. It’s not equaling you to the abuser, it’s more showing that people have wildly different reactions to various stimuli and sometimes the core cause is the same.

 

[Evie loves Sam]

Could be a little of both. Could also see it by breaking down the abusers motivations (rather than actions). For example, Abuser was neglected as a child and never did anything to change or heal so went on to neglect their own children. Those children will have triggers related to neglect that are similar to the same triggers related to neglect that Abuser has but they act on them differently. Hopefully that made sense. It’s not equaling you to the abuser, it’s more showing that people have wildly different reactions to various stimuli and sometimes the core cause is the same.

He was in abusive family and his parents lived in seperate countries.

Everything that his mother complained that her mother in law did, they dud to me. And, the father in law was very verbally, emotionally and economically abusive. He said they were an emenmeshed family and had an unhealthy dynamic. But he did this all to me and more by gaslighting me (yes, correct use of term).

Then everything he accuses me of, he has done exactly that. One rule for me that is very opressive and another for him where he is allowed to do as he pleases.

I don't do this to him. My family didn't do this to me. So, it's not my mirror.

 

[Friday]

Carl Jung said, “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

Is this always true?

Is this always true? As an abuse survivor (working on it), what irritates me is the abuse and agression. I don't think that makes me an abusive or agressive person.

Why would you assume it does??? ((Unless, the obvious; that you were blamed FOR the abuse… so you’ve internalized abuse & aggression as being your fault. Instead of the fault of the abusive & aggressive person)).

Being irritated by abuse and aggression… DOES speak to having a history of abuse & aggression… as a victim, as an abuser, or a witness. Sensitivity almost always says firsthand experience, but there are outliers. In any role. Intellectual revulsion is different than visceral revulsion.

That you went immediately to it being your fault? IS like a ticker tape parade saying that you were someone else’s victim. It ALSO makes it more than likely that you’ve hurt others.

(Becoming an abuser, yourself, is extremely unlikely, although it does happen… but victims nearly always have a victim pool of their own. Not targeted victims. Not people they abuse on the long term. People they HURT, in their own lashing out. One offs, for the most part. Occasional repeats. Here, there, the other time when ABC or XYS and BOOM.)

But being sensitive to abuse, because it’s in your history? Could mean that you WATCHED, or that you EXPERIENCED, or that you LEARNED, not that you WERE. Although odds say there is an emotional connection? Again, outliers happen.

That you jumped to being sensitive to abuse paints you as an abuser? Almost guarantees you were a victim of abuse.

Are trauma triggers different to the triggers everday people experience? Because it’s trauma? And Jung is talking about everday triggers of things that irritate, but not traumatise?

Yes.

Everyday triggers are far more complex than trauma triggers.

They STILL tell you a whole helluva lot about a person, but unlike trauma triggers which are simplistic, everyday irritations are not a straight line. Instead? They tend to pull from dozens of different/discrete data-points. Instead of a singular North Star.

 

[Dark.Green.Feathers]

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

i don’t interpret this as automatically saying “if you’re irritated about x it means you embody x”

it Can mean that, i get irritated with people sometimes because of my insecurity and stuff. there was someone i knew and i’d get so frustrated with their existence because they knew what was going on in their head and i didn't understand mine, and somehow that was their fault?? so in that case it reflects me having a tough time with myself instead of an actual issue with that person, i was just spraying it out at someone else.

But i think it means you learn something in general. it reflects information of something that happened.
Me having a visceral bad reaction to say being asked to change a diaper, because it brings up feelings of abuser/victim, reflects my history of CSA.

same with having an intense bad reaction to idk being alone with certain people; something bad happened with them, or in a somehow similar situation. it reflects a bad history.


so yeah i think it is more nuanced than “this gets to you therefore you are this” it’s more so “this gets to you therefore you have experience with this and it could be a lot of different positions”

maybe i do get especially irritated when people keep small pets in too small enclosures or alone when they shouldn’t be, because i was responsible of my pets when i was little and did a terrible job, so i feel guilty but also care and know better now so it feels more personal than just knowing it’s wrong/harmful logically, without the experience.


reflection, but not always (or often?) that you are the thing you’re reacting to.

 

[Movingforward10]

I'm not going to pretend I understand Jung at all. Because I really don't.

But what I take that sentence to mean is that: when we have feelings in response to something, when we examine what those feelings are or what the response is, then we learn about ourselves. It's not the reflection of the other person. But deepening our understanding of ourselves.

So for example, a trigger for me has been walking past a group of men. I feel unsafe. Those men may or may not be safe , I don't know. But me even realising that I feel unsafe was a learning. That this was a trigger, took learning. That how a trigger feels for me took learning. Not being triggered by that any more, took learning. And all that learning was about me, as opposed to anything to do with them

 

[Evie loves Sam]

I think one of the examples given is that if you get irritated by someone chewinging loudly, then that is a mirror that you hate that you, yourself, chew loudly. I thought sensitivity to sound had a name in psychology and it is a sign of trauma that you are hypervigilent to sounds?

But, my ex chewed loudly. Slerped and sucked his food like a vaccume. My sister could not stand it, but she had bereavement trauma, I mostly ignored it, but when there was no food for the children, or me because I was tending to the children, because they (his adult sibilings) sucked it up in seconds, I got irritated. Not triggered, then. But I am now.

But at the same time, there was a period in my life when I could not afford food. I was quite skinny. That is trauma of life being just a bit hard, but not a trauma. But that they (himand his siblings) did to not ensure everyone had something made me a bit irritated and snappy even...my child even cried that his sister was always eating her food and she had nothing to eat.

 

[Evie loves Sam]

I'm not going to pretend I understand Jung at all. Because I really don't.

But what I take that sentence to mean is that: when we have feelings in response to something, when we examine what those feelings are or what the response is, then we learn about ourselves. It's not the reflection of the other person. But deepening our understanding of ourselves.

So for example, a trigger for me has been walking past a group of men. I feel unsafe. Those men may or may not be safe , I don't know. But me even realising that I feel unsafe was a learning. That this was a trigger, took learning. That how a trigger feels for me took learning. Not being triggered by that any more, took learning. And all that learning was about me, as opposed to anything to do with them

I like your explanation, it makes sense. I will re-read what you wrote again and ponder on it. Very thoughtful.

 

[arfie]

i don't believe there are absolutes to triggers. each one is a bit different and even repetitive triggers can lead different places in each go-round.