Sexual Assault Did my ex rape/assault me with bdsm?

[anonymous]

Why are two consenting adults not equally responsible? T

Responsibilty starts to shift the moment you become too frightened to speak or act freely.

What I've read, by the OP's account, this happened the moment she entered the apartment.

It is why we no longer require rape victims to literally "Say No", or fight back.

 

[Deleted member 33052]

Responsibilty starts to shift the moment you become too frightened to speak or act freely.

What I've...

And if her partner had no idea that she wasn't acting out a role...?

 

[Sideways]

And if her partner had no idea that she wasn't acting out a role...?

The "I thought she was into it..." excuse. Doesn't cut it.

And if you smash someone's head against a wall the second they walk into an apartment? You wanna be absolutely crystal clear on exactly what they consented to beforehand.

 

[Deleted member 33052]

The "I thought she was into it..." excuse. Doesn't cut it.

And if you smash someone's head...

Believe me, I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour. I am just very uncomfortable condemning someone without knowing anything about his motives. Actually, I'm uncomfortable condemning anyone based on one side of the story.

 

[Sideways]

Actually, I'm uncomfortable condemning anyone based on one side of the story.

I understand that, and I wouldn't want to hitch my horses to this situation if it were to face a courtroom. But "Do I condemn your abuser?" isn't a requisite for support round here thank goodness!

The situation is, we have someone who appears to have endured physical and sexual acts that she hadn't consented to. There's naivity there, sure. But the trauma from rape doesn't come from what was going on in the perp's mind at the time - that's only relevant to his criminal culpability.

What my abuser was thinking at the time? Doesn't change what I was experiencing in the moment. I'm not more of a victim just because my abuser was more evil than someone else's.

We've come a long long way with rape myths. We now provide support to lots of victims that we used to shame or silence. Wives (and husbands) used to be told, "You married them, what did you think you were consenting to?" The student in the short skirt who got drunk and passed out? We don't shame them with "Well what did you think was gonna happen?"

To me, that's important progress, and we should stick with those same principles, because it's what was going on in the victim's mind at the time that causes the trauma.

So, was the OP naive and irresponsible for her own safety walking into that room? Sure. But that doesn't amount to consent.

I imagine walking into a room and getting my head smashed against a wall straight away... Some text message agreeing to try out bdsm doesn't make that ok. That's terrifying, and most women when they're terrified? Won't fight back.

 

[Deleted member 33052]

I understand that, and I wouldn't want to hitch my horses to this situation if it were to face a...

Excellent points, Ragdoll. Definitely food for thought....

 

[ILoveLife]

I agree with who said that he was clever in hiding his intent for "rape fantasy" under the disguise of BDSM (I'm sorry, it was a few pages ago). Maybe he was more informed about BDSM than you were, maybe it was lack of information on both parts. That doesn't shift guilt from what actually happened in his apartment.

The truth is, like in a lot of abusive situations, you trusted him and he broke that trust. If the sexual act itself was abuse, my take is that he was in fact acting in a rape fantasy with consent for BDSM, which are two different things.

In a rape fantasy, he probably wouldn't want you to know about it so it would be more exciting. It would be easier to disguise it at BDSM so you know it would hurt. He did a good job at enacting his rape fantasy and a terrible a job with BDSM, that should tell you something.

Hope therapy helps you.

 

[minirini]

You all have given me quite a bit of food for thought, and I want to address some topics that were brought up regarding prior knowledge, intention, and consent.

I agree it's possible neither of us knew what BDSM truly meant, and perhaps both of us were naive, but I think the true question isn't whether our ideas of BDSM agree. The true question is that regardless of the label, did he know something about the sexual acts that we would be doing that I did not know, and did he act on this knowledge knowing that I was unaware? Because we could have had very different ideas of BDSM and still have a good time if both parties were communicating and able to give/withdraw consent in a safe environment.

Someone said that the ex may have had a rape fantasy or at least fantasised about violence, and I agree this is possible. I didn't know he had this fantasy, and I think I had reasonable expectation at the time to believe he wouldn't frighten me seriously or hurt me. If we didn't have reasonable expectations about how our partners act during sex, then we all would have to write out a legal document every single time we had sex. But the fact is that we do generally have expectations, no matter what the sexual act, that our partners won't just do whatever they want, and that we are in a safe environment to say no or withdraw consent. I certainly had such expectations and you cannot argue everything goes off the table for BDSM. Actually, to do whatever you want goes against the rules of BDSM, so what he did wasn't BDSM.

So I had some expectations, namely that I wouldn't be placed in a situation where I'd be frightened enough into being unable to say no. I didn't know his meaning of BDSM, and more importantly, I didn't know what sexual acts I'd be participating in. True, it was naive of me not to ask exactly what we'd be doing, but was it naive to assume he wouldn't seriously harm me? No.

Even if he didn't know what BDSM meant for me, I think it's clear that he knew what he was going to do to me beforehand. This type of sex isn't impromptu hair-pulling--this is pre planned violence. Unless he was extremely stupid, he also should have known that I wouldn't expect serious violence or a rape fantasy from him. I can't read his mind any more than he can read mine. It would be dumb and even cruel to assume your girlfriend just knows telepathically that you want to beat her up and "rape" her.

So he knew he would be violent, he knew that I had expectations of being in a situation in which I could withdraw and give consent regardless of what I thought of BDSM, and he knew that I had no clue what he wanted. Yet, intentionally or not, he chose to be violent and submit me to a rape fantasy that I did not in any way expect or agree to beforehand. If you "rape" your girlfriend but your girlfriend doesn't know you want to "rape" her, then that's actual rape because there wasn't informed consent. I don't know about you, but I don't think you "accidentally" act violently toward someone when you knew how you would act beforehand. He didn't "accidentally" act violently, regardless of our different ideas of BDSM.

Again, maybe it was dumb of me to not ask for clarification, but it would be exceedingly stupid for him to assume I would telepathically assume I was okay with violence and rape fantasies.

 

[ILoveLife]

I spent these last few hours thinking about this specific situation, was waiting for your reply. I honestly think you're overthinking it, but it isn't your fault. Like I said earlier, he broke your trust and was misleading, even if it was out of ignorance (which I doubt), what matters is how you feel about it.

You're asking if it was rape, but we can't say for sure. Are you intending on pressing charges? It's just to ease your mind?

Either way you'll have to work through it in therapy.

 

[minirini]

As to whether he had bad intentions or meant to seriously hurt me: I don't think he meant to hurt me, but he meant to and did act on his knowledge and my expectations. You could argue Bernie Madoff didn't mean to ruin thousands of people, but he certainly meant to run a Ponzi scheme in which he knew certain things about the money transaction and he knew people generally expect some degree of honesty from whoever manages their investments.

 

[minirini]

I spent these last few hours thinking about this specific situation, was waiting for your reply. I honest...

I'm certainly not intending to take it to court. I have no desire to slander him or ruin his life, because that's what taking it to court would do. I still care for him, though perhaps I shouldn't. Would he be devastated to know that he had assumed my consent to violence and rape fantasies when I never consented--essentially rape? Yes. Unless he purposely withheld information about his rape fantasy, in which case he purposely chose to and expected to hurt me. Legally what happened may not count as rape, since states have varying laws on what counts as rape or assault.

But if we're going by the layman's definition about rape as non consensual and uninformed sex? Then yes, I wasn't informed beforehand or during the event that he was going to be violent and act out a rape fantasy, and I didn't consent to it, regardless of BDSM definitions. He may not have known the meaning of BDSM, but he knew and planned for violence and a rape fantasy that I didn't agree to.

 

[ILoveLife]

Maybe I'm too cynical and was burned too many times in my life, but I actually don't believe he had the best intentions behind what he did.
I also cared for my abusers for years after the abuses happened, in childhood and adulthood. We want to see the best in people.
I think he manipulated into one thing in order to get another, and like I said, wether it would hold in a court of law or not, what matters for your treatment is how you feel about it.

Breach of trust is a sort of abuse, then there's the violence of it.
Your body was violently attacked without your specific consent for that action. You agreed to one thing, you got another.

I'm not sure this was said already or not, but bears repeating. In a BDSM sexual relationship, the play mates will discuss boundaries and safe words. He asked you if you were okay with anal sex, he didn't ask if you were okay in enacting a rape fantasy, and that distinction is very important.

There's a reason why there is so much consent in BDSM and so much talk about it, it can be very traumatizing if done improperly, which is obviously the case. Although there is a discussion to whether he understands the concept of BDSM or not.

Plus, and I'm sure this was mentioned, you talked through text... there should've been a good discussion about boundaries, at least face to face.