Leaving The Forum Because Of Opinions!

[cookie]

opinions are fine, and healthy , but crude gestures and "go to ****" are just wrong, no reason for personal attacks, and anthony , you should have stopped it when it was no longer political, but personal. this is MY opinion.
cathy

 

[anthony]

Cathy, this could be true, however; the idea is not to shut people down here from saying what they believe, or their opinions. Far far from it actually. Its to help people create tolerance, to build their self esteem in order to help themselves be capable of conversation without becoming aggressive. I can handle people being aggressive with me, and I don't need to respond in an aggressive manner to help them along, simply continue the discussion and let them see their own mistakes. I cannot do the work for anyone, they must do the work for themselves. If a person cannot tolerate political discussion, and instead form statements into personal attacks, without asking for clarification first, then that just helps demonstrate to themselves that they need to work on their self esteem, they need to work on their self confidence in order to participate in something without aggression. Lets face facts, PTSD stems many negative emotions, and those negatives stem responses such as aggression, anger, hostility, rage and so forth, none of which are healthy if you want to control PTSD.

I go to sleep quite peacefully each night. Does a person who wants to be angry? Healing trauma is one thing, learning how to manage PTSD is a much broader area that I try to expose to sufferers against real life situations, not just general chit chat. Building tolerance, building assertiveness, not aggression, is the aim.

 

[goingonhope]

Opinions are great, and society works upon them. Where things go wrong, is when people become argumentative towards trying to sway others into thinking or believing that their opinion is the right one, instead of being allowed to choose for themselves.

In just the last few days I've thought and learned more about opinion than I've ever considered before this. Appreciate many good points made throughout this thread.

Have been reminded lately of something I've heard said often, "Trouble starts all around the world, whenever people, groups, and countries try to impose their beliefs and will upon others."

A belief is an opinion so why do we so often do this? Thinking about this what I come up with is something I long ago learned and understood clearly along the lines of ...hurt people, hurt people, angry people anger people, and on an on an on an on.....and so I suppose oppressed people oppress people, .....or so they try anyhow.

I generally remember to understand this. As we tend to live what we learn and unless we re-learn something more constructive and quick, or we recover from the unjust that may have been done us, we tend to lose consciousness and may, likely, lean towards or act upon - 'Do onto others as, others, have done onto us. What about........"Do onto others as, you would like others to do onto you." Perhaps optimistic, but not really so for the individual who values this.

Generally only a problem when someone like me who has lived under much domination, cruelty and oppression much of her life demands that others think, feel, believe, be of the same opinion and perform according to absolute rule, leadership or regime.

I pers. now only resort to this tactic when my already low self-esteem goes unrecognized by me, and simultaneously my husb. offers out his opinions concerning family matters, or me. Which I don't appreciate, one single bit, and perceive as him always seeing things pessimistically and the 'cup as half empty'. Well, then I feel threatened and I've shut-him right down. Other than with my husb., this ineffective imposition of will, is more of a thing of my past. As, I've learned to be vigilant, over the yrs. concerning my tendency toward this, ...............but I've overlooked this too, it being a major cause of all hell'breaking loose between husb. and I, at home at times. And, up until the last few days, I was absol. convinced he was in the wrong, for holding opinions on matters that differed from mine.

I have re-thought and learned so much from some recent threads, that not only am I appreciative that some things didn't get deleted, yes perhaps closed at one point, but not deleted, and now later there is much to think about, relate and reflect to our own selves, and discuss, hopefully learn much.

Reminds me of the saying, "In everything, if we look we can find a seed to a bigger and better good." Not exactly it, but along that line.

So anyone with an opinion, don't hesitate to offer it, and test us all. ...lol

Hope

 

[batgirl]

I agree with everything that's been said thus far. However, I wanted to point out that someone with a low self esteem may not be argumentative or aggressive at all. Take me for instance. When there's a discussion, I will give my opinion, but if someone refutes me I usually back down immediately and often apologize too, even if the other person is full of shit. I'm afraid of conflict and afraid of people being angry or upset with me. I try to be pleasant and agreeable, often to my own detriment. The only time I would be aggressive would be in a total rage, and then I'd probably just smash the computer rather than type something nasty. And if I did type something nasty I'd be very apologetic and embarrassed later on, I certainly wouldn't continue to think I was right or leave the forum over it. I think it's sad that people left the forum over that other thread. I didn't really understand what they were so angry about, I didn't see anything derogatory in what was said. It seems to me they must have had some other issues that were bothering them as well.

A lot of times too, I don't argue because I don't have sufficient knowledge about most issues. So I keep out of discussions to avoid looking stupid.

I definitely think people have a right to their opinions, and I'm glad they are not censored on this forum.

 

[Ubu]

I dont know the thread that caused someone to leave the forum. I like what Anthony and Mac have said. Since im new around her ill go out on a limp. People come her for support and for validation. Sometime they may come here and not get the validation they are looking for whatever the topic maybe. If several give an apposing opinion. They may not be strong enough to take the opinion or feedback and really look at themselves and through that become a stronger person because of the internal trumoil.
There are a few different personalities out there and they can be catigorized. Some always have to be right unless you can back it up with fact and show them they are wrong. Some are passive. Some are peacekeepers listen to both sides and try to find a middle ground. Just like raising kids or training a new police officer. You have to let them struggle to learn. Often that is the better teacher than someone giving you all the answers. Im probably way of base here. But isnt that why we are here to bring our experience, perspective and knowledge to help one another. And be validated or unvalidated and struggle and grow. Just my .02

 

[anthony]

That is exactly it Ubu... to learn from other another, and respect anothers opinion. It doesn't matter if one person here despises London, and another loves it, (example), Australia, USA, etc etc... its about opinions and that we are all entitled. I learn from others here every single day, even though most may think I don't, I do. I read things here constantly that help influence my own decisions and thought processes, to do research on a particular topic, etc, but to improve myself overall, and hopefully to put all the pieces together to help others in the process.

People here help others more than than think, or even often know, just from sharing their opinions and experience. Its not about trying to change people to have the same opinion, that is wrong, its merely about shareing it, getting it off your chest, and others should take what they want, leave the rest, but not judge others based on their opinions.

I don't like George Bush, despise the man, but other here voted for him, some would vote for him again if he could run, but that is something I respect of others, as its their opinion, and mine is my opinion. Neither should attempt to influence the other to accept their opinion or change their way towards that opinion, but merely acknowledge that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. We are not here to change people, we are here to provide information, opinions, fact and experience to allow people to make their own choice, not influence them one way or another. I like what you said Ubu... well said at that.

 

[goingonhope]

Reminds me of the saying, "In everything, if we look we can find a seed to a bigger and better good." Not exactly it, but along that line.

Now I remember the actual saying that was once shared with me as support, It actually goes,

"In every adversity, is a seed to a bigger and better good."

 

[goingonhope]

Hey mac, I'm up to 3AM by now, and was just browsing about and read this:

Opinions are based on perception and perception is reality and this reality is truth even if its not the actual truth. :biggrin: How's that grab you?

and wanted to let you know it's a grabber. :tup: Interesting points!

 

[Abstract]

I did not see the thread discussed here but I do believe, in principle, that peoples voices should not be shut down, within reason.
I guess we all have to learn to deal with even bullying behaviour. Unfortunately.

An exception to that though would be if someone was discussing something very raw and being vulnerable. I don't believe that is the time for agressive or personal attacks; but from the sounds of things this was not the case in the thread. In that situation I do think a line sometimes needs to be drawn to avoid the person being re traumatised.

I hate conflict but have worked hard to be able to be at least moderately assertive and I think letting moderate conflict play out can help people do that.

One thing I personally still struggle with is finding something very triggering even though I know it is just linked to trauma for me. I certainly don't blame the other person for my reaction but I am left in a state regardless.
I guess it possibly plays into the narccistic injury that we all have to some extent and in some way!:O_o:
As Anthony said, if we are not vulnerable then we do not care.

On a personal level I HATE it when people force their opinions on others. It is a very aggressive behaviour in my opinion.

 

[anni]

This isn't so much a tough one as a really involved one? I'm not so sure the people who look for the middle ground in something are peacekeepers, really- think it's more that they're objective observers on whatever xyz might be, seeing the valuable qualities in both arguments and weighing the possible virtues in their own value systems before venturing their own opinion- based on their own perception then.

"Opinions are based on perception and perception is based on reality and this reality is truth even if it's not the actual truth". That's a little bit of an oxymoron since it sweepingly states categorically perception IS based on reality then that reality IS truth, then turns itself around to say well, maybe not. Is what that is trying to say " Opinions are subjective because they are based on ones perception of what one's reality is, since only an individual can ascertain for themselves what their truth is?". Confusing, but maybe I have the wrong end of the proverbial stick. Some truthes are inarguable ( although you'll see people arguing hammer and tong some other position, to be sure ) like " If you do not have air to breathe, you will die".

It would be a boring, tedious sort of world if everyone felt the same on every, single subject. Having said that there are some subjects it IS tough to sit on your hands politely enough to not 'rude' someone into provoking an equally rude response but it must be done. It's too small a planet to tool around insisting on our own way, allowing ego to reign free. Leaving the forum ( hee- in my opinion ) because of a differing opinion is just such a thing. It's far to easy to allow opinion to directly equate into an ego, get-out-of-my-way, I'm-right-there's-no-room-for-your-idiotic-ideology mindset across the board in life. Clump a ton of these together and you get a Holy War, for God's sake, no pun intended.

It is hard, though. Like Anthony, I detest Dubya and have an awul time not completely, absolutely closing my teeny little mind completely when any mention of his name comes up. I'll habitually and dismissively deposit the person speaking into 'Oh, you're one of THOSE' bins in my head and merely wait until I can get my shot in, not really listening to reasoned argument. This makes me the ninnie, protective of my perceptions, operating only from my subjective construct of the truth because it serves my purposes. If/when I listen to the other side, I might learn something and this will only, only happen IF I come into contact with others who have other perceptions and constructs. Maybe I'll agree to some, maybe I will not but remaining completely closed or denying myself the possibility of contact with others entirely means I'll never, ever have anything but an increasingly myopic, self absorbed perspective of this and any other piece of this vast planet. Would be a pity.

 

[cherryblossom]

I did not see the thread discussed here

I just wanted to point out that this thread was started over 4 years ago. I'm not saying the subject is no longer relevant.... just thought I'd mention how old it is.

 

[freakofnurture]

I don't have any problems with other people's opinions. It's the actions that these opinions could inform that get me going. It's hard for me to let go of the responsibility I feel I have to inform people about what I'd like to call 'testable reality'.
I haven't yet left fora because of other people's opinions, but I have resigned from a position in administration because my fellow admin and the mods were into malevolent gossipping and in-group/out-group behaviour like high school girls.