Other Let's talk about torture.

[Freida]

Big sigh. And then there’s the whole ‘sold’ to a pedo stuff. I wasn’t trafficked, right? As I still went ‘home’ afterwards. But there was an agreement, and exchange for something and I, my body, was payment…

sold is sold. Call it trafficking or sales or assault -- it's all the same. You were sold to a pedo as a child. No matter how you label it that is horrific. And yes, it's torture.

 

[Ice_Fire]

Sorry for the screenshot earlier. Can’t face writing it out. Anyway, yeah. Need to accept it. T session on Tuesday, a lot of it was “you need to accept how bad this was. You get it cognitively but you don’t get it emotionally. It. Was. Torture”. Yeah thanks T.

Two years I’ve been on this thread and longer than that I’ve been thinking about it but he’s right; I say I get it and have accepted it but I haven’t. Not really. Why am I being so stubbornly dumb about this concept?

 

[Givrali]

I learnt the brain can trick itself into believing that something that happened wasn't that bad in order of to gain an illusion of control, it's a self-defence mechanism. Maybe it's because too much stress and horror is too much to deal with.
I hope I'm not blabling nosense, I'm not very able to remember things I read about trauma all the time

 

[Freida]

Why am I being so stubbornly dumb about this concept?

When you figure it out let me know!!! Because my t blathers on about that too --- that it's worse than I thought, that it has a name of Torture (ya, she always puts it as a big t LOL). And yet.......here I am. Starting to get it a bit, but still backsliding constantly

 

[Givrali]

I wasn't tortured but I still lied to myself about how bad something was. I just found a proof few days ago and it's been days I'm depressed about how bad it was. I can only find relief how it's going to make recovery easier.

 

[Ice_Fire]

I hate my brain, like goddamn why do you not get it?! I do, I’m starting to accept it now I think. Stupid little girl, taken me like 20 years and a lot of help to join the dots up that it was largely if not entirely, orchestrated. It did not just unfortunately happen. I didn’t just happen to have parents who were friends with a pedo who had other friends… duh, they were in on it.

They got stuff out of it, they were invested in selling little old me for good times to be had by everyone else.

Because if you were at a guy’s house drinking and smoking and the dude disappeared with your kid and a big ass camera and various…implements…you wouldn’t just sit there and watch the footy would you?

Spoiler

I’ve never really really gone into detail about what N and his friends did. N mainly. It is broken and bitty in places. There’s no timeline. I’m waffling. I’d be made to undress. Often I had to wear a rubber gas mask. The game turned nasty pretty quick. I guess it would come under pretty extreme BDSM???? I guess. Wasn’t always tied. Sometimes just the baseball bat sitting behind the door was enough for compliance. Heck, I couldn’t not anyway he was huge and I was…not. Made to do degrading sh*t, pretend I was a dog or whatever. Play the game for the camera. He’d hold my head and I remember being sick and…that didn’t go down well so I had to clean it up. Gah…can’t finish that sentence. Had to clean it up by eating it.

I’ve said about the potato peeler put up there by my mother to cut me from the inside. Or maybe it was just to keep me still and the consequences of moving were on me. Either way same result. But I’ve never talked about N. He would be in me and he’d put something else in the other.

I’m sure I was drugged on occasion as it’s not even hazy it’s blank. Waking up in the car on the way home. The only indication being the fact I needed to clean myself up.

The stupid costumes, not just the gas mask. N seemed to have an obsession with hunting trophies and animal skins and goats heads and stuff like that. I can’t…

And it was all planned. How thick am I?

 

[somerandomguy]

How thick am I?

Not thick. Even besides the fact that you can't remember a lot of it, who would want to sit around and think about that?

 

[Freida]

Because if you were at a guy’s house drinking and smoking and the dude disappeared with your kid and a big ass camera and various…implements…you wouldn’t just sit there and watch the footy would you?

nope. No one who was a decent human being would - even if they didn't have kids. I saw someone wander off like that with a kid I would intervene - regardless of who their parents were

And it was all planned. How thick am I?

Not at all! It's hard to get the mind wrapped around the idea that people will do this stuff to kids - especially with their parents help. I mean, ya, it would obviously be something you might want to desperately ignore.

I'm so sorry.
This never should have happened.

 

[Weemie]

Stupid little girl,

You were preyed upon. Children don't know how to recognize predators not because they're stupid. It's because that is a complex psychological mechanism that takes even full grown adults decades to learn how to spot.

I know for a fact you would not tell a little girl who thought grown men were going to be nice to her and wound up torturing her sexually, that she was stupid for following along. I know that because I know you, and I know PTSD. It's the Double-Standard Effect. It happens because when we get traumatized, our brains begin to try and help. It's evolutionary, why we say "it can't be that bad, it's my fault, I'm stupid." That's evolution at work. Why? Think about it.

Let's say your perception of this is right. You were a stupid little girl, who got involved in a traumatic event, but all-in-all? Wasn't that bad. Many others have it worse. You're fine. Even though it sucks to be stupid, and it's embarrassing to be having such a dramatic over-reaction? Those emotions, those feelings, are easier for you to feel than IF THE TRAUMA WAS HARMFUL ATROCITY.

If your trauma actually was that bad? It would be a million times harder! If you weren't at fault, you were just a kid? OK, solve the randomness of the universe. The chaos. Why did it happen? Your brain doesn't comprehend chaos, so it creates order and comes up with the conclusion that OK, it must be my fault. Because that makes sense, even though it feels bad, it feels less bad than having to contend with the fact that things are chaotic and inherently uncontrollable.

As the trauma happened to you, it was damaging your hippocampus. It was changing your brain wiring. So when you remember these events, your ability to interact with this material logically and objectively, without judgment, becomes impaired.

But, if another little girl came up to you and told you she had been tricked into horrid torture, that isn't your memory. You aren't remembering her experiences with a misfiring hippocampus, you are observing her statements and can engage with them cognitively and logically, and you would conclude that the predatory men are at fault, and assure her she isn't stupid.

 

[Ice_Fire]

Thank you @Weemie Honestly that has helped more than you’ll ever know. Thank you

 

[Freida]

so. pictures/video/what not.

I recently realized that I kept quiet less because of the death threats and more because of the pictures. The kind you take and shake so they develop to be shown in minutes. The staged photos he threatened to show to the entire world. The ones that made me a "willing participant" in his games so he wouldn't go to jail

It's one of those things that make my brain hurt. Tiffany's video was horrific - he captured all the torture and blood and death. . T says that Tiffany was a nobody to him, and he probably wouldn't have been caught because she wouldn't have been found. Me on the other hand? Mine were posed and polished, showing only what he wanted others to see, as a way to humiliate and implicate me She says he couldn't kill me - I would have been looked for because I belonged to the military.

WTF goes thru their minds? I know they usually take some kind of trophy of their victim - obviously that was his. T says this ups the torture vibe because of the poses and what not - that it just upped the pressure on me and one more thing to work thru. But really? does it? I'm kind of in the torture is torture mindset - does there really need to be a new level of crapola to make it "worse"? Or have I finally gotten on board with the whole concept of torture and I can see it as just another thing that happened, without have to use a sliding scale on what was the worst part? Ya, I kind of like that idea.

 

[Friday]

But really? does it?

Professional torturers don’t do this… unless it’s a client request. Similar to how grocery store workers don’t take pics of the produce section.

Sadistic/Personally gratifying ones almost always do. Take some kind of trophy &/or “insurance”, &/or drama-queens who CANNOT be “blamed” for anything… in their own minds. Psychologically HAVE to make it the victim’s fault. (Personal ideology/IME here; child abuse victims who have to blame others for their own actions, as they blame themselves for their own abuse). As, to be frank, I have SERIOUSLY f*cked with some of these people. Partly because of my own history / getting my own back… even when they were on “our” side. Most people who torture others, IME? Are NOT the sadistic thrill f*ckers. It’s a job that they’re either suited to, or? Not. Those who are suited to it? Span. The. f*cking. Rainbow. But almost none of them? Are the sadistic thrill seekers, who take trophies & collect insurance & shit. Sadisric thrill seekers, IME, are almost always the child abuse “it’s YOUR fault, not MINE, this is happening” coward-crowd.

^^^ I’ve been tortured 3 times, in total. (Witnessed, partaken, IDFK. More.) Only once was by a pro. Who was both irritated/camaraderie-esque in a weird way, to realize I’d already been broken by someone who didn’t know what the f*ck they were doing. Essentially the order goes; Military Idiots, professional, Civilian Idiots.

IDIOTS? BREAK you. On accident. In wildly unpredictable ways.

Professionals have an end game and know how to achieve it.

My professional torturer & I didn’t exactly become friends??? It’s a wildly inappropriate term, but we were able to very human together. I rather liked him, to be honest. Having dealt with the sadistic f*cktards previously. (And again, more idiots, later, who were using pain to achieve their goals without understanding anything about it, and how pain affected people in different ways, really.) He was funny. And pragmatic. Total sociopath, which means he weirdly liked me in return (IDFK why sociopaths like me, but they almost always do.) Also, having known other professionals (who I PROFOUNDLY disliked, right on up to regarded as actual friends), I am NOT saying that’s a usual/expected occurrence. Just? A bit of luck. That AFTER I’d been broken by idiots, I just so happened to meet someone who let me square things… differently.

Being broken, by idiots? Is nearly a foregone conclusion. That’s almost “why” professionals exist. Because pain affects people in TREMENDOUSLY different ways, and recognising those ways, much less directing them, takes… experience, subtly, skill. Idiots ACTUALLY break you. Rendering anything/everything unreliable… hence the need for insurance/ guilt/ blame/ shame/ leverage. Professionals achieve their ends WITHOUT “breaking” you, but “just” by achieving very narrow ends. You don’t go insane if a professional is torturing you. You almost always do if a f*cktard sadist pos is torturing you. I’ve experienced both. And seen both.

This is one of those ALL THEIR FAULT situations.

And I’m not a “it’s not your fault” kind of person. Not being at fault? IME? Affects very little. Makes things LESS complicated, not more.

An idiot broke you.

An idiot also broke me.

Pros? Are a wholly different sort of f*cked-upped-ness.

Don’t give idiots more power than they have. Because that is EXACTLY what they want… but do not rate. If they broke you? They SUCK at their jobs, SUCK as people. Unless they’re children. Children have an entirely different -everything- about them. Child soldiers? I will ALWAYS do exactly as they request. As their loyalty is absolute. Self-servance? Nill. A child demands I do XYZ? I do XYZ. An adult? I might extemporise/ negotiate with. A child I obey. With tremendous respect. Full stop.

If your torturers broke you, like my first broke me? They SUCK. At both their jobs, and as human beings. The way in which you shattered? They had zero control over. No finesse. No skill. Amateurs who break their toys, and then blame their toys, and attempt to extort their toys. Because THEY suck. Have zero skill. Zero finesse. Not you. You? Reacted exactly as you should, as anyone should. Blaming you for it? Means THEY suck. The more you believe it, the MORE they suck. I know. It’s a bizarre paradigm. But also a true one.