Politically incorrect

[Deleted member 45988]

@anonymous said:

"Straight female here.

I can’t even tell you how many unsolicited cock shots/dick pics I’ve received. Dozens?…

I suspect dick pic thing is something even young gay men would agree with me is more common with gays than breeders.

 

[Sideways]

my experiences in small town led me to believe that conservatives were a bunch of hypocrite jackasses. Then my experiences around liberals in city led me to believe that liberals were a bunch of hypocrite jackasses.

So, it’s actually okay for you to have whatever political beliefs you want. Truly - that’s okay.

The good news is, that ptsd? And treating ptsd? Doesn’t actually care whether you’re hispanic, gay, christian, tall, great at football, vote conservative, drink bottled water, own a gun, eat organic. Whoever you are, and whatever you believe? Ptsd, and it’s treatment? All the same.

Any T worth their salt? Should be able to help you recover from ptsd (if that’s what you’ve got). No matter how much you may politically offend them.

You don’t have to be a nice person to be treatable - you just have to be ready and willing. And that’s your call.

 

[Deleted member 45988]

Muttly said:

"And as @littleoc mentioned, the way you explain things might unintentionally be playing into how you are received. For example, suppose someone said, everyone who raped me was Christian. A lot of Christians might get defensive. They might assume that judgement was being passed down on Christians. Now, if the same thing was rephrased just a bit, "I was raped by several different people who happened to be vocal Christians and now things associated with Christianity make me uncomfortable" there is already going to be a lot less discomfort. Why, because it takes the focus off associating Christians with rape, and puts the focus on your personal discomfort with Christians because of your personal experiences."

But I agree that sexual assault and ignoring and maybe even blaming of victims has been a big problem with priests in the Catholic Church. I think it's right to place blame on Catholic Church and to make everyone aware that this is a problem to cause change. I don't think one should worry about whether or not it offends anyone to point at priests and the church and actually say "priests" and "church."

Thinking about this as general blaming of Christians is different. I more or less agree with you on this, but I also think it's fairly socially acceptable in liberal world of social sciences, where psychology comes from, to figure out how Christians are more to blame than others and to actually say christians are more evil than others. Though, again, I see where you are coming from here as one way is a little more calling out individuals or possibly even some group to task for it's inconsistencies and another is more like hate.

 

[Deleted member 45988]

@Sideways stated:

"So, it’s actually okay for you to have whatever political beliefs you want. Truly - that’s okay..."

I feel like there is a certain dynamic where it might actually be easier to talk to someone gay about some of this. Like I get impression that if I talk to open minded gay therapist and say something like 'you know how things are at gay bars, with sometimes there is crotch grabbing and straightforward pressure into sex, etc,... I felt like I was treated like that'. I feel like maybe gay T might sort of get what I am talking about, but I think maybe others would not. Like I think gay person might have experiences with bad behavior in gay bars and know other gays who are hell bent on bedding straights, but the whole subject might make others so uncomfortable they knee jerk with reactions of homophobia or delusional beliefs or something.

 

[EveHarrington]

How would any one gay man know about the behavior as a whole of all straight men?

Why is it that at every turn you insist you are special, you are a unicorn, you are a snowflake......and nobody else is like you......even though many have tried to say that this kind of thing is not unique to gay men?

What is it that makes you so resistant to acknowledging that your experience is by no means unique?

Why are you so resistant to actually healing?

 

[Sideways]

I feel like there is a certain dynamic where it might actually be easier to talk to someone gay about some of this.

You’d be basically saying to your T “you know how sexually abusive gay people are...”. I don’t think that’s likely to go down any better with a gay T!

Bit like me saying to a male pdoc “You know how men are so inclined to be filthy rotten pedophiles ...”. That was my trauma experience. Based on my trauma, men are filthy psychopathic pedophiles. Not real productive to argue that point though, yeah? Mostly because, regardless of how accurate that might be of my personal experience, there’s really no avoiding how biggoted it would make me to argue all men are like that, regardless of what I’ve experienced first hand.

More to the point, engaging in that line of thought, as true as it may be of my trauma experience? It is a cognitive distortion. Your generalisations about the gay community, as true as they may be of your trauma? Are still just a plain ol cognitive distortion that gets your recovery nowhere.

Probably, you’re going to find that a T is unlikely to spend a whole heap of time engaging in sweeping generalisations about the gay community. Probably you might be well served to give more thought to your T’s professional credentials than their sexual preference.

It’s really not getting your recovery anywhere to focus on “what gay people are like”. All its going to do is alienate you from people that might otherwise be willing to support you.

If you talk about “this is what I need help with...”? You’re likely to find you get support.

If you keep pushing this overtly homophobic view of the world in preference to your recovery? Trying to convince everyone that you’re right about the gay community? Pfft! You’re so on the wrong website for that!

 

[Deleted member 45988]

@EveHarrington stated:

"How would any one gay man know about the behavior as a whole of all straight men?...

I was not lacking in clarity after initial incident about who was to blame, but I felt like all the external blames and suspicions of victim (meaning me) made me lose confidence and half decide that I was at fault because I was flawed because I had disorders and "chemical imbalances." Then this somehow made me a target for first roommate, etc.

I sort of regained confidence and that I was not at fault by living by myself and getting angry again.

Like I am almost scared to not be angry or trust anyone because I might get manipulated into self doubt again. But I am angry all the time and it's out of hand and I can't function.

I don't really know about how unique this is, but I do assume it's somewhat unusual. Like do women actually get ganged up on with many accusations that the real problem is that they "dressed too sexy" and lose confidence in their right to be angry because there are so many accusations that they "dressed too sexy"? It is possible that I am underestimating how much blaming of the victim actually occurs with women.

@Sideways:

"You’d be basically saying to your T “you know how sexually abusive gay people are...”. I don’t think that’s likely to go down any better with a gay T!…

I'm sorry this happened.

I don't know, I just feel like I've had to gain a boatload of confidence so I can talk about things without letting the blame and accusations get to me and I'm a bit afraid that psych will find a way to convince me to lose confidence in myself. I am getting a bit lost in reasoning, but I sort of feel like there is something a bit different where I first have to prove gays might behave this badly so someone will believe I was treated badly. Like I think it's somehow different, in that I think there is less disbelief that pedophiles might behave terribly to get an individual case be taken seriously. But I am getting a bit overwhelmed responding so much and might be making mistakes and don't want to keep debating.

 

[Sideways]

I sort of regained confidence and that I was not at fault by living by myself and getting angry again.

Is this perhaps where you are now over-compensating?

You originally felt invalidated because of the sexuality of the perpetrator, and perhaps, in finding validation, you have now overshot the mark?

 

[Deleted member 45988]

@Sideways stated:

"Is this perhaps where you are now over-compensating?…

I think that I am clearly too angry and should let go of anger and accomplish something, but it's like I'm afraid to because it's like my protection. Or something. Maybe.

 

[Muttly]

@Pokeyslow

But that's not different from what I'm saying. I still talk to gays and don't run screaming at the sight of a man in stylish clothes because I think they might attack. :) To me it's like if some woman came on here and talked about this sexual assault and that sexual harassment and this sexual assault, then there was some knee jerk reaction and all sorts of energy spent trying to figure out exactly what the woman did wrong or how she is at fault or what delusions she might have.

Actually, no, it's not the same thing. Look around enough and you will find posts by men here saying they were assaulted by men. You will find women saying they were assaulted by women. That is the same things. These folks don't specify if the men or women were gay or straight. That's what you are doing differently. That is what is causing the discomfort that you perceive as backlash. Why, do you need to specify gay?

As far as more gay men sending dick pics, it seems you've noted pieces that support your assumption this is a gay male thing. Have you paid attention and made note of the conversations, articles and info about women who have received them? There is a bias towards finding info that confirms your belief and I believe you've fallen it it. A quick google search, linking to the first article I found about women and dic pics reveals more than 50% of millennial women have received one, so it's hardly unusual for it to happen to women. I couldn't find a good study, that was similar for gay men. The only one I had talked about dating aps, and not all gay men use dating aps so that's skewed. What I did find is several articles talking about straight men sending dic pics to other straight men. So, something I really hope you can keep in mind, you don't know if someone is straight or gay unless they tell you. You mentioned not running from fashionable dressed. I identify as gay male but am so NOT fashionable. I work with a guy, that everyone wonders if he's gay, because he's the king of fashion. Nope. He's straight. And, straight men, can sexually assault men.

Though, again, I see where you are coming from here as one way is a little more calling out individuals or possibly even some group to task for it's inconsistencies and another is more like hate.

Ah, so here's where some of the disconnect comes for me. Why is it necessary for you to call out a group of people? I understand your example at the what happened with the Catholic Church and priests. If you want to hold priests and the Catholic Church responsible, yes, it's necessary to "call them out". Is that what you intend to do in therapy? Therapy isn't typically about holding the other party or parties responsible, it's about your healing. So, if you went into therapy and started talking in huge generalizations about Catholics and Priests, a good therapist is probably going to challenge you, even though there was (is?) a real problem with the church and what happened. Because that over generalization is a part of the PTSD.

 

[Muttly]

Ok, first you have to understand something about me. I am transgender. I was born in a female body and didn't transition to male until adulthood. I have lived for years as a male though and identify as a gay male if I have to pigeon-hole myself because it's the description that best fits. So, again, I hang with gay men. I date gay men. I've gone to gay bars. I have not gone onto any gay (or straight) dating sites because I have trust issues. So, I can speak about the gay experience. So yes, gay men grope each other and such in ways that does not give space for consent and I do agree that's a problem. I have never known a gay man, who goes chasing after straight men. That would be considered a fetish probably and be a very, very small portion of the population. And being a man, (leaving out gay or straight) and talking about being sexually assaulted by another man is hugely hard. There's a lot of judgement still attached to that, but in my experience not in the areas you are putting it. It's generally more of the... "you weren't man enough to defend yourself" type of stupid crap. So there's the gay male perspective.

Now, having spent too many years living as a woman, and also being someone who is aware of what goes on in the world, I'm sort of amazed that you are really that unaware of what women go through. You are massively underestimating what women go through. Women regularly get blamed for what happens to them. I don't know how to word that strong enough. This is still an incredibly common message. Just google "she asked for it rape" and see all the hits.

 

[Suzetig]

Like do women actually get ganged up on with many accusations that the real problem is that they "dressed too sexy" and lose confidence in their right to be angry because there are so many accusations that they "dressed too sexy"? It is possible that I am underestimating how much blaming of the victim actually occurs with women.

I think you’re way underestimating how much victim blaming goes on with women. From “you were dressed too sexy”, “you wore slutty underwear”, “you got drunk/high”, “you accepted a drink from him”, “you arranged to meet him”... all of it aimed at blaming the women for some men’s inability to control themselves.

I was massively blamed for abuse that happened to me, as a young teenager by a man more than twice my age. I was so blamed my dad beat me unconscious for my slutty behaviour. Literally everyone in my life actively blamed me for what happened.

I wonder if what you’re struggling with is that you’ve experienced a bit of what life is like for women. Men making sexualised comments, touching you inappropriately, pressuring you for sex all while blaming you for their behaviour? I’d be delighted if someone grabbing at me was limited to pubs and clubs, then I could just avoid those places but it’s not - nor is it all men all the time. It’s not a man thing, or a gay thing, or a straight thing, it’s an abuse thing.