Isn't abuse black and white?

[mylunareclipse]

In my therapy, I find that we talk a lot about "black and white" thinking "all or nothing" etc, and try to allow me to feel certain feelings towards certain people that perhaps I would not allow myself to feel otherwise.
However, a shift happens, and I start thinking isn't abuse "black and white?" is there really grey in why and if abuse happened?
While I can understand the reasons behind why someone might have been abusive, there's no way I cannot think "black and white" that they were abusive and hurt me. Nor any grey in whether abuse happened or not. When I start thinking in non black and white terms about these issues, I get very flooded with emotions and feel like I am invalidating myself.
Anyone else has these issues?

 

[Kintsugi]

Most of my trauma was extremely black and white--absolutely abuse. My mother, however, emotionally abused me, and that feels like a big grey area, because we have an ongoing relationship and have never addressed the abuse retrospectively. I actually did address the abuse when I was about 11 or 12 with the help of a teenaged mentor (a camp counselor I remained in contact with as a sort of penpal), and the abuse greatly decreased, but we've never spoken of it as adults nor have I mentioned how f*cked up it was that a teenager helped prepubescent Simon end such vicious abuse.

Anyway, my point is... I struggle to make her own the abuse and to even fully recognize it as undeniably abusive because I don't think she realized at the time how messed up she was or how much she f*cked me over.

ETA: my brain isn't working so well right now. I feel like I didn't really get to the heart of what I was trying to say. Hopefully I can come back and be a better participant.

 

[WishfulThinking123]

This is a very good thought/point. Well first I do think it depends on what kind of abuse you are talking about- For example say a child was back talking and the father kind of wanted to pop her open handed in the mouth but accidently hit her too hard- yes very wrong all of it but...I wouldn't really consider this abuse being that the intention was not to hurt the child but, rather use an outdated discipline measure and accidently hurt her in the process. However if a father smacked a child in mouth as hard as he could with intention to hurt- then I would say this is abuse. I think it falls back greatly on intention.

However, I do think sexual abuse really needs to start being thought of as black and white-this is something I am grappling with. For example, I think any time an adult touches the child in his/her private area it should be taken seriously. Sadly it isn't and there are a lot of these situations that are brushed off oh they didn't mean it that way...you sure you aren't exaggerating, etc... (know from my own experience...) This does nothing but put doubt forever in the person's mind about what is acceptable and what isn't...Also, even as an adult if you say no that should be taken seriously.. I think we are doing our kids a huge disservice if we do not think of sexual boundary violations/abuse in black and white. I think it is important for us to stand up and think of it in black and white...

I think maybe your T isn't trying to invalidate but, trying to bring you to a point where you can forgive your abusers which is a process. I'm really sorry for whatever has happened to you and although it may be important to come to an understanding that something wasn't right with your abuser's childhood or upbringing that caused them to abuse you that is no excuse! At the end of the day we are all accountable for our own choices and my T said its good to acknowledge what has happened and that it was painful. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting/getting over it. It was wrong and you were hurt by it and that's ok.

 

[Kintsugi]

For example, I think any time an adult touches the child in his/her private area it should be taken seriously. Sadly it isn't and there are a lot of these situations that are brushed off oh they didn't mean it that way...you sure you aren't exaggerating, etc...

Actually, this is another thing that f*cks with me... I'm a sibling incest survivor. "Playing doctor" and "experimentation" is completely f*cking different than what I endured, and it's not always taken seriously. I've started calling it rape instead of sexual abuse to get across the point of how bad it was, how traumatic, how violently I was acted upon, not to mention driving home that there was penetration (not just some "show me yours and I'll show you mine" crap).

 

[Deleted member 12723]

My abuse was quite sadistic in nature during all of the time I lived in my childhood home and I would say it is in black and white. Maybe yours was too. This is something only you would know. I know mine left scars that will be needing healing for the rest of my life.

I think what everyone said is good and very thoughtful responses too. This was a great topic to bring up and I look forward to learning more about this as well.

 

[WishfulThinking123]

Sexual abuse for whatever reason is not taken seriously enough but, ignoring it and thinking I wasn't allowed to be upset over it in my case just internalized itself inside of me and I acted out plenty in college without even really knowing why... I'm just saying if I was allowed to be upset about it and it wasn't brushed off and it was taken seriously maybe I would have better boundaries and not continue damaging myself in this area. @Simply Simon I am truly from the bottom of my heart sorry you went through that!

 

[Deleted member 12723]

If a child gets sexually abused and tells someone that believes and comforts them and deals aggressively with the abuser in order to stop the abuse, that child has scars but has a much better chance at a normal life later on. But that rarely happens in our world today.

 

[WishfulThinking123]

Well see mine wasn't that bad...only light molestation-my T calls it sexual assault. However, that's the thing for a child why isn't it taken black and white? I don't get this...so is it sometimes ok for adults to touch a child in the private area and sometimes not? I play with my son all the time and never once have I "accidently" touched him in his private area- heck I'm kind of really adamant about boundaries so I even have him wash his own private areas in the bath now. I want him to know he has control of that area- something I STILL struggle with....

 

[mylunareclipse]

Sorry about what happened to you guys.
I just find myself struggling with this concept. Right now we are talking about some bullying and my family being invalidating and abusive, which are minor things. However, I feel like how can I trust to go into deeper issues if we don't draw that line right now. These things were abusive to me, so no I don't want to look at them under any other light, if felt wrong to me, so it's wrong. I don't want to think about forgiveness, not now. I am barely starting to feel angry about all of this. On top of that, I have always seen things from other people's point of view, over and over in my life, allowing for many abusive relationships to happen. I just feel a little confused.

 

[WishfulThinking123]

On top of that, I have always seen things from other people's point of view, over and over in my life, allowing for many abusive relationships to happen.

I can relate to your above quote. I think people sometimes who haven't gone through trauma think its better to just think about the positive, move on, etc... However, I really disagree I think if we don't accept the trauma, pain, and suffering we went through we can not move on (something I am still struggling with.) You might not be able to forgive now and that is ok, I think that usually comes later after you have processed trauma? I am not really sure... I think maybe your T is just trying to have you let go of that anger you probably rightfully so feel towards your abusers. That anger that you feel towards them is letting their actions still affect you and have power- the very thing you don't want.

 

[mylunareclipse]

I know! that's what I hate the most! That they still have this power over me!! I want to move on and I can't I feel stuck. However, now now I can only think about this in all or nothing terms. I just have to hold on to it. It's so painful

 

[desiderata310]

I have a couple of places I struggle around with this concept.

The first I am going to mention actually came up like an HOUR after you posted.
My daughter works at a daycare center and told me two very different end of the spectrum tales.
Two weeks ago, a kid came in with whip marks that were so bad that when another child accidentally touched his back that he screamed in pain. DCS was notified. The child and his sister, were taken away and are currently residing with their grandmother. She was (and righteously so) angry about this. It was clear cut abuse. I mean, who hits a 2-3 yr old like that? Who hits ANYONE like that for ANY REASON?

Today she called me about a co-worker (the lead teacher in HER class) being fired and escorted out the door unceremoniously and immediately for tapping a 3 yr old's hand and telling them no. We talked about this a bit because I did that to them and she felt that this was reasonable to do with a toddler. She even told me that everyone is upset at work because most of the teachers actually do butt swats.
What's worse is there is no clear cut definition of what is and is not allowed for discipline.

Now I wonder if I was abusing my children by doing this. One of my children was just frenzied as a toddler and I spent a great deal of time chasing after him and telling him no and spatting his hand. It was often the only thing I could do to get him to STOP touching things that could hurt him. And yeah, I spanked. Over the clothes, with a hand. The kids told me later that my spankings hurt their feelings and not them.
So I'm not sure that there is black and white but rather continuous shade of grey? OR maybe I want to believe that because I don't want to think I'm an abuser?


The second has more to do with me and consent and what was right and wrong. When does consent happen? When is it clearly abuse? When ISN'T it and this has lasted into my adult relationships as well mostly because I'm just not sure. I have tried to define the shades of grey for my therapist but wind up realizing that he tends to think of things more in terms of THAT was abuse when I'm not so sure if it was. There's a number of things I could point to where the lines are blurred.

One was the last anniversary I spent with my husband. Things spun out of control very quickly and I never TRIED to stop anything. Was it abuse? Was it more shades of grey? Was our entire married life like that? And I struggle at times to call any of it abuse and other times it just seems so clear cut. But then there are times like the anniversary that are so many different shades. Parts that were undoubtedly abuse or.. maybe I deserved that? And parts that weren't, I mean, there were moments of enjoyment, but I didn't want it. And often enough I wonder if I have unfairly accused someone because I'm a poor communicator.

The second is also hard for me to just talk about.
There were things that happened to me sexually or otherwise as a kid that I can point to and say, yes. THAT was abuse. THAT was totally abuse. Then there are things that happened that I feel that either I deserved or sought out and actually enjoyed and I say, no that wasn't abuse. It hurt, but I knew what I was doing...so there was consent. There was totally consent so that wasn't abuse, right? And my therapist argues with me that a 9 year old can't consent. but maybe they can if they are sexually mature? And I'm right back where I was before...

So yeah, usually I find myself frustrated, flooded, angry, confused and want to run straight to "It was just all my fault! f*ck IT! because I can't parse it out.