Childhood Being hit with a hair brush-abuse?

[Scarlet13]

Before I answer this, let me be clear I don’t agree with physical punishment and don’t hit my child...

Yes, this can be summed up just with the idea that I believe my mother perhaps constructed and used corporal punishment as a means to abuse. She could label it discipline and do it correctly on the surface but really it was abuse.
It was severe, overly strict, and for little things that shouldn't have been punished. Like expressing emotion. Everything was interpreted as being about me, I was inherently bad.
I don't agree with spanking but I do not feel it always equates abuse from an abusive person.
I think using objects is an abusive action (it is now illegal I believe).
My mother used it too much and for nothing.
One time I went away with strangers and my mom smacked me hard on the butt. I deserved that. I complained about something and got the hair brush that left welts, that's abuse.
In reality, what matters is what I think is abuse along with my T for my healing process to happen.

 

[Marinna]

NB: Ok, this is going to be a long post, so, if you're actually going to read it, brace yourself. Make...

The problem is you are acting like we have all come on here and said that spanking Is ok?
NO ONE on this thread has said that. At all.

In fact you have picked up on my posts quite a bit and ignored my position that smacking is wrong. Bit odd, no?
As I said, I was physically abused as a child. I was also 'smacked'. I can see a clear difference. One is more damaging than the other. Physical abuse in my country is defined as unreasonable chastisement of a child leading to physical injury or marks on the skin.
Smacking will probably be considered abusive in the future. Legally and culturally.

The damage it can cause is evident. Violent criminals are nearly always 'smacked' as kids. That worked real well for them.

The problem is that a hell of a lot of people (in history and now) have been smacked by parents who are loving, decent, kind and nurturing.

Nope. I'm not calling them all abusers because they don't understand all the information you cling to.

 

[Marinna]

And FYI, i'll take your time machine and go back to the 1500's and tell everyone that having sex with 12 year olds is wrong. They will react real well to that and will change their laws immediately. Meanwhile, gentle discussion and suggestions will be ignored. Smacking is not being phased out becuase people are marching on the streets and chucking the term abuser about. It is being phased out because people like me and most of the posters here are engaging with the issue and debating it without taking firm postions and alienating parents who smack.

Rome wasn't build in day. If you want to build Rome, you don't go and yell instructions. You pick up a brick and crack on.

 

[MoonCat]

Have you even read my post?

Look, you're condoning hitting kids, even if you don't do it yourself.

When I quoted people I specifically didn't use names, because it doesn't matter to me. Seriously. It's not about you personally.

But if you are an adult, with a completely developed grown brain and coping techniques. You feel bad when someone points out logical mistakes in your thinking and feel attacked. You think I'm "picking on your posts". And look, I'm just a stranger on the internet. How do you think a child, with underdeveloped neo cortex, would feel if he was hit by his caretaker? Not just disagreed with.

This same debate has already happenned. Correcting wives with a slap used to be ok. Exectly the same arguments that I read here, were used by people to stop the laws that would ban men spanking their wives.

 

[Marinna]

Have you even read my post?

Look, you're condoning hitting kids, even if you don't do it yourself.

W...

I don't feel attacked. Please don't project that on to me. I didn't say 'picking on my posts' I said 'picking up on my posts'. So please read more carefully, thank you.
I have not condoned smacking. I have a problem with calling smackers 'abusers'. When we aren't culturally or legally there yet. There is a difference.

 

[Marinna]

I should say calling ALL smackers abusers.

 

[Marinna]

This might help explain my position a little better, I used to be a volunteer cop (that's how I got in this mess lol).

I used to work with kids in the cadet force. We used to get them to do push ups and pull ups etc as punishment. Everyone was ok with this. It was policy.

Then they did more research and asked how the kids felt. Most were fine with it. Some felt like it alienated them and made them feel bad.

So the rules changed. We couldn't be placed at risk of 'bullying the kids'. We accepted that and worked out new ways of disciplining the kids.
It doesn't retroactively make me a 'bully'.

 

[CdnCopper]

**Disclaimer**
Lets get one thing straight off the hop. This post is refers to corporal punishment by a parent that does not exceed their parental rights according to the laws of the land where I reside.

Corporal Punishment is still allowed in Canada and parents are protected under the Criminal Code as long as the child isn't "physically injured". There is a current debate going on to see if that should be removed. Currently there are about 40 Countries that have banned it. Of course with any debate there is evidence and opinions for both sides.

Although I never used it, my parents did minimally and I would never in a million years label them or anyone else that used it to such a minimal extent as "abusers", that is not only my own opinion, but the Courts here in Canada agree with it as well.

For my own family it was alternatives such as positive reinforcement to change the behavior, or "time outs", removing our child from the situation. For example if our child had a tantrum or a meltdown in a public place, Grocery Store, Restaurant etc., they would get the three count to settle down or we would pick them up and remove them so we wouldn't disturb other people. We would then go out to the car and sit together until they calmed down. Sometimes it was after a few minutes and we would return, sometimes we wouldn't return at all.

Personally it drives me nuts when in a public place a mom or dad is trying to negotiate a truce for a half hour with a four year old having a meltdown. All that shows me is that the tail is wagging the dog.

I have no doubt that there were and are parents that labelled me or would label me as an "abuser" when I was carrying my screaming 4 year old out of the grocery store to the car....those would be the parents that believe you can negotiate with a screaming child during a temper tantrum meltdown at your favorite restaurant.

For these very reasons people should be cautious with handing out labels. Personal opinions are just that because as @Marinna noted we aren't there yet legally or culturally when it comes to the "minimal" use of Corporal Punshment and there are those that would even consider other forms of behavior modification, such as mine as being "abuse".

Personally I reserve labels for those that exceed their parental authority.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[blackemerald1]

@MoonCat please read the OP's question. I am sure you are passionate about it all.

Look, you're condoning hitting kids, even if you don't do it yourself.

^^Nobody is saying that at all.

I agree with @Suzetig, @Marinna & @CdnCopper there is no point calling out all spanks or smacks to children as child abuse. Because it's not. And, further those that did do it, are not all child-abuser's. Not by action and not according to the law. Not by those who gave the spanks and not by those who received it.

You are over-reaching and or, over simplifying the issue. Whatever it was interesting reading but not on point to the Thread topic I think.

There is a cultural, traditional and sociological perspective in regard to this issue.

Having perspective teaches us human things that science cannot explain or long before science does explain.

The law eventually comes along and falls into line with cultural and sociological perspectives long before science does.

@Scarlet13 situation is very nuanced. There is a psychological component to her situation. We are here to support her in reaching some understanding. Not to champion a cause within her Thread.

Please ask a moderator or start a new Thread on that subject. You will likely get a diverse range of opinions.

 

[Scarlet13]

Lets get one thing straight off the hop. This post is refers to corporal punishment by a parent that does not exceed their parental rights according to the laws of the land where I reside.

Actually the punishment did exceed her rights. She left marks and bruising. She let her boyfriend "discipline" me and this broke the skin. Both adults had major issues and let rage come out during the "spanking" even though they thought they were calm.
We were hit until we cried. There was also a major emotional abuse component and a sexualized component.

This is the issue here, these above components are not present in every spanking case. This is exactly what I set out to think through and I value every ones insights.

I don't think spanking is right. But the question always is, what constitutes abuse?
I swatted my son one time because he kept crawling out of the grocery cart seat. That worked, he stayed safe. Is that abuse? I don't think so. I swatted my son because he was not laying still for me when being changed and I was tired, stressed and pregnant. Was that abuse? I am going to say that it was not right and if I kept doing it then yes. I think that any swat and spanking can get complex and become a slippery slope into becoming abusive. I agree that we need to move away from corporal punishment.

In my case I am trying to figure out that my mother hitting me with a brush was abusive. It bothers me that I need to question it, but I do understand that it was a socially acceptable thing and she felt she needed to do it. Still, at the time she had me, formula was touted as better than breast milk which is totally backwards now. My mother ignored this social norm and "rebelled" by breast feeding me. Her gut told her this was best.
I am a mother and the times I lightly smacked my children (twice out of safety) felt terribly, horribly wrong to me.

I have no doubt that there were and are parents that labelled me or would label me as an "abuser" when I was carrying my screaming 4 year old out of the grocery store to the car....those would be the parents that believe you can negotiate with a screaming child during a temper tantrum meltdown at your favorite restaurant.

Well actually you are doing the right thing by removing a screaming child. I have seen kids get spanked in public for tantrums before and I always think that the parent could have removed them non violently instead. But that parent would argue that is not right because they are bowing to the child and giving up shopping.
There are many ways to be firm with your voice and with stating behaviors. It is not passive negotiation or haul off and smacking your child only.

I subscribe to Love and Logic parenting. This gives you so many tricks you do not have to be permissive or authoritarian you can be proactive.

 

[CdnCopper]

I was referring to my own post, not the OP.

 

[CdnCopper]

I was referring to my own post, not the OP.

My own post @Scarlet13 was not referring to anything other than what is allowed by law in Canada, "corporal punishment without injury is allowed". I was NOT referring to nor diminishing any other post where injury had or does occur because that IS abuse. That's why I had the *disclaimer* at the beginning of my post.