Redefining Mentally Ill

[Pencil]

I'm off on a tangent I think - but someone will get us back on track....

I think it's going exactly the way @shimmerz wanted it to go ... ;)

 

[Pencil]

I wonder... what if we made it easier for people to get protective orders. Sane rational people should be able to respect a demand to keep away from another human being. And sane rational people should be allowed to demand to be left alone by someone. I don't know tho how to do this in a world where not-so-sane people ask for (and invite the other to then violate) such orders. Surely there is a right to be left in peace that could be enforced somehow... If only a society cared to recognize it...

As you say, some people get POs, then invite the 'bastard' for a romantic dinner. I honestly think it should be an offense of some sort, or a breach or a whatever to do that. When you get a PO, you should be forced to live by the rules. This will prevent harpies from getting POs against their partners so easily. They clog up the system, repeatedly.

 

[Eleanor]

The best weapon you have is your brain!

The best weapon you have is almost always your brain. Sometime it comes in really handy to have other things as well. But the brain is indispensable. (see McGyver, Burn Notice, Dr. Who, all current kid adventure shows. Not to mention Bugs Bunny. And that most adept runner away, the Road Runner.)

One of my 'stalkers' would easily (given his job) be able to track a name change

And would using a public data base for private purposes to harass an adult who has gone out of her way to avoid you be legal? A medical data base?

And yes, there is a pattern. You know what it is, you just need to see it.

And bravo to the kids in both of you @shimmerz and @Pencil for protecting you - it may not have been the best way possible, but they were worthy attempts. And kids need backup. That's what adults are for.

 

[shimmerz]

Wow....these last posts are absolutely spinning my brain. Seriously can't take it in. It is like you guys are speaking a completely different language. I suppose the brain would be the best way of sorting it out - if only my brain would stop playing this game of twister when I try to think my way through any type of retaliation. I won't be able to address all posts above - no disrespect meant and the ones I have not 'liked' are the ones that are stumping me'. That I can't even think through or at times read through without reacting.

I will start with @FridayJones. How do you even teach a child that it is okay to protect themselves physically? I can see I am very 'black and white' thinking here.

@Eleanor - pattern? I have a leaning towards patterns normally but am certainly not feeling like I am even capable to getting to this at all. It feels like all of this is beyond my comprehension somehow. I feel like my brain is not a good weapon at all with this. All it keeps thinking is 'make it stop - please somebody make it STOP'.

@Pencil - analyze? Wooooooyyyy! I can't get the STOP out of my head. My brain functioning stops there.

 

[shimmerz]

So is all of this post my desperate need to have someone else (a parent in my past) want to take care of this for me? Or is there actually value in what the pretense of this post is and should government/officials/whatever have a responsibility to do their due diligence when someone is way over the edge of the moral compass that (I thought) they proclaim to be upholding?

Should I have to be terrified to EVER publish my address? I feel like this is the same situation that the foster homes put me into. Bite and hit to protect myself (- present - disappear on paper to protect myself) and be slapped harder - bitten and hit back (- present - lose my right to live safely in a house, my health care, drivers license, all rights to a normal life) which in turn is reinforcing that I have no means of self protection. On top of that slap a label on me so that nobody will take seriously a very real issue?

 

[Pencil]

It is uncanny how the patterns repeat....

So, it is time for you to put a stop to it. The reality is that you are going to have to do it. And do it efficaciously - whatever works. If you have to learn to bite and kick again, you'll just have to learn.

 

[Eleanor]

How do you even teach a child that it is okay to protect themselves physically?

You start by teaching them that they are a person of infinite value and worth who deserves respect, respects others, and is expected to conduct themselves with dignity and compassion for themselves and others. You teach them that we use our words to resolve disputes. We don't return mean-ness for mean-ness, harm for harm. We don't intentionally try to hurt someone just to hurt them. And when we are dealing with someone who won't work with us we have several options: we can walk away, or we can continue to try to engage (but only if we can handle whatever they are dishing out.) If they are harming us or others we have a duty to protect ourselves and innocent others. We have a duty to do what is necessary to make it STOP. So we must learn how we can effectively stand between evil and the innocent. And when we cannot do it alone (and we often cannot do it alone) we ask for help. As they get older and more skillful, we teach them to use minimum necessary force. Which does require some skill.

So is all of this post my desperate need to have someone else (a parent in my past) want to take care of this for me?

Maybe partly that. Which is not an unreasonable thing to want, because it WAS something you desperately and objectively and quite naturally needed. And the little girl part of you that is stuck in that time emotionally still does. And, happily, now there is you, and your SO and your T to help her out.

And maybe partly your actual need to be re-parented (sorry for the word @Pencil) in the sense that you need to be taught appropriate boundaries and the skills to guard them.

Or is there actually value in what the pretense of this post is and should government/officials/whatever have a responsibility to do their due diligence when someone is way over the edge of the moral compass that (I thought) they proclaim to be upholding?

Clearly when adults knowingly and repeatedly abuse others of whatever age they should be stopped. If the abusee is not able for whatever reasons to make it stop, they should get backup from their community, e.g, the government. That is what governments are primarily FOR. (See Hobbes "Leviathan.")

Should I have to be terrified to EVER publish my address?

No. You should be free to publish your address and feel secure from attack, discrimination and abuse. Period.

The only question is how to get there from here.

On top of that slap a label on me so that nobody will take seriously a very real issue?

There may be ways to use the SPECIFIC label to help you get protection. If your MD and T are willing to say that this person is the cause of your trauma to a judge, they might be able to find a way to issue a protection order without other sorts of findings. And, if he is an officer of the court or in an official position it will look VERY SUSPICIOUS indeed if he objects to it. Why would he care if he doesn't intend to bother you? Does he have any legitimate business with you? Write a letter and tell him to "Talk to my lawyer." (you can ask one to take on this role pro-bono.

I feel like this is the same situation that the foster homes put me into

Of course you do. This is the bit that is stuck in the damn foster homes. And still trying to protect you like mad, but... without the skills and knowledge to do so in this context (or even in that one.)

It is hard to sort out legitimate and left-over fear. It just is. And I think you might need to trust your SO and T to guide you thru it, so long as you have found them trustworthy and effective in other areas.

It feels like all of this is beyond my comprehension somehow

It feels that way. Here is an exercise that will help others help you find the patterns - write a narrative. Say what that person did. Be as factual as possible - give names, dates, places. Write it ALL down. It will suck. It will be painful. It will trigger you like mad, but if you have the capacity to stay even marginally present through it and stay safe you should give it a shot.

You've already identified one pattern in yourself: Be attacked, fight back, be hurt worse. What forms did the attacks take? What precipitated them? When and why did they end? OBSERVE. And reassure yourself that it is NOT happening now and you ARE GOING TO MAKE IT STOP. And this time you have help.

 

[scout86]

This reminds me of how to deal with an aggressive predatory animal.

Which is exactly the way I see them!

Wow, a lot happened here after I went to bed last night!

@shimmerz , have you ever read "The People of the Lie", by M. Scott Peck? It's a great book, about "evil", more or less. My T recommended it and I've gone on to read more books by the same author

The fact that one of your stalkers has access to that kind of data base is a potential weapon. I'm pretty sure it's neither legal, nor ethical for them to use it to stalk someone. Prove that they've done it and they should be subject to disciplinary action. There were some incidents in the state where I'm living now, a couple of years ago, where people were "exploring" the state drivers license data bases. They didn't even USE the data, as far as I know, they were just accessing stuff they didn't need to access. They lost their jobs, were dragged through the press and their bosses came under fire too. Such things happen.

@shimmerz, I'm sorry your childhood was handled the way it was! You are no longer a child, though. Now you have choices and the potential for control, you just have to claim it and be willing to fight for it. (Doesn't mean you'll always win, though.) When you think about it, to be like "them" you would have to be interested in going out of your way to torment people for the "fun" of it, would you not? You're not starting anything here. You just want to live your life and you have every right to do that. They don't have to right to get in your way. But, if you let them take that from you, they will. Because that's the kind of creatures they are. I don't think you have it in you to be like that, even if you tried.

 

[shimmerz]

So incredibly grateful for your time @Eleanor and @Pencil through this part of the posting. I say with all due respect and sincerity, that how this thread has evolved is just fascinating to me and I want to thank everyone for sticking with me on this. I know it has been intense. :hug: @FridayJones your words have been a challenge to take in but they are creeping in. It is giving me a different and better perspective. I so appreciate your taking the time to help me through this. My proposal for you will come shortly in this posting. Think it through carefully willya? ;)

@Pencil. Thank you for the challenging statement to analyse. I wasn't sure I was up to it but with all of your hands reaching out I feel the caring and appreciate more than words can say the attitude of 'get moving'. Loves ya! :hug:

When is it okay to attack someone else?
When you're defending yourself, someone else, or learning how to fight.
Rudeness has the same rule (since it's attacking someone without touching them).

This is where my black and white thinking comes in I think. Attack. Attack means something altogether different for me than for others. I like this reference to rudeness. It is verbal and not physical. I feel that I can start to work with that. The physical will take a bit of serious work. Thank you @FridayJones.

The story of your son got me thinking. I NEVER run when I am in danger. T-doc said way back in the day that he felt that because my trauma occurred when I could not run that I have carried that pattern. I have seen this in other aspects as I heal but this is the first time I have seen it with this issue. I see now that the only reason I started running and hiding was because I was putting my friends at risk - when it was just me - I stood right there and would not budge. My ideas are very skewed. They are very immovable. I see that. It pisses people off when I won't back down. So of course, they want what they want and go after my friends or family and they know I will stand down then. You are brilliant - thank you.

You obviously are doing fantastic things with your son. I needed YOU as my parent! Who says we don't make great parents? Willing to adopt? :cool:

(and we often cannot do it alone) we ask for help

Okay, so this is where I see that my past therapy has allowed me to start dealing with this issue. At one time I would not have reached out for help. Because of my belief systems I am certain that I can't protect myself on my own and I freeze. Now there is at least one other option. I can trust those that I have put the time into learning to trust. I can draw on their expertise so that I can look this in the eye. I can put out there on this board without guilt and shame my general rawness and know that I MUST accept that help because I don't have the necessary skill sets but WANT them badly. I don't want to rely on others completely in order to sort out this issue. I want to learn from others how to do this for myself. How to break the patterns that people see in ME that allow them to see me as target. Maybe not so much because I am an easy one but because I would literally die rather than back down, unless I am putting someone else at risk. Perhaps not a good plan at certain times. :oops:

we have a duty to protect ourselves and innocent others.

My SO and I were speaking about this post this morning. He didn't know about it until now but has been wondering why I am so obsessed with my computer right now :angelic:. He reminded me of the spring time when someone was targeting a woman in a coffee shop and I stood in between the aggressor and the aggressee - stared down the aggressor and - my life was threatened by her - but I stood my ground. People who knew me looked at me and went - are you freaking kidding me?

So my SO pointed out my disconnect between my standing up to protect others and my absolute disbelief that I can protect myself. Maybe looking at the contrast of how I feel when I stand up for others and overlaying that with how it would feel to do the same for ME in that coffee shop - hmmmmmmm.....

This is the bit that is stuck in the damn foster homes. And still trying to protect you like mad, but... without the skills and knowledge to do so in this context (or even in that one.)

This was HUGE for me last night. I never put it together until you guys posted and it all fell together. The white elephant in the living room. Now that I see the correlation I have some place to go with it. Thank you so much. To me, it is really helpful knowing where the belief system started so I can challenge it.

When and why did they end?

All of this section is fabulous. At this point it doesn't feel like it ever ends. This is going to be the most challenging point of this exercise (which I will do). I need to really look hard at what my role in this is. What I can change.

 

[shimmerz]

It is uncanny how the patterns repeat....
So, it is time for you to put a stop to it. The reality is that you are going to have to do it. And do it efficaciously - whatever works. If you have to learn to bite and kick again, you'll just have to learn.

Yes, it fascinates me. This is all going backwards and re-engineering to get to a more healthy outcome. Opportunities keep coming up to help me get it right. I am grateful.....at times more so than others.

have you ever read "The People of the Lie", by M. Scott Peck?

No, but I absolutely will if it comes recommended by you @scout86.

to be like "them" you would have to be interested in going out of your way to torment people for the "fun" of it, would you not? You're not starting anything here. You just want to live your life and you have every right to do that. They don't have to right to get in your way. But, if you let them take that from you, they will. Because that's the kind of creatures they are. I don't think you have it in you to be like that, even if you tried.

No, and sometimes I am bitter about this. Those are my weak moments. I don't want to be like that. Maybe that is part of the resistance to my learning these skills. I may well be afraid that if I allow myself to understand them, I may be irreparably damaged which may be reflected in my continued statements of 'I am NOT them'.

Such brilliance here. Thank you!

 

[Pencil]

Scout has recommended People of the Lie, I recommended books. I really think you need to read - it will change your perspective on a lot of things. You can contemplate publishing an affidavit on the internet - which details your abuse. Time to start brainstorming.

 

[shimmerz]

I am reading the ones that you linked to right now and have been since you recommended them @Pencil. They are brilliant. The books I have in my library right now are all trauma based. I believe I need to switch around now and start looking at the books that talk of strategies that will allow me to change my behaviours that will allow me to make better decisions as to how to empower myself and change the things I need to change.

I still believe that things need to change - but since that won't happen soon I need to shore up and get moving on taking proper steps myself.