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Redefining Mentally Ill

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lol - silly! No you are NOT the resident sociopath. :p You seem to have a good solid grip of how to be protective and teach protective (to your son). I am black and white thinking here and really need to see another more grey way. That you most certainly have provided to me in this posting. Thanks for the trigger warning but somehow the way you put it - it makes sense. Yipppee! Not even a shudder from me. The most beautiful gift I got from this @FridayJones - fight until they stop. Funny, in my way of thinking I have to stop because they never will. Wow.....aren't I just a mass of misfiring neurons! :confused:

So sorry to have kept you awake - and so grateful that you posted whilst being 'punchy'. Great posting for someone so tired! I hear lots of people get grouchy when they are ready for bed and someone insists on calling them back. Thanks you! Sweet dreams! :hug::hug: Two hugs for staying up late for us.
 
I just want to add that with abusers you have to go beyond 'equal and opposite force' just to stop them. If you do that they'll come back with renewed enthusiasm. You have to hit much, much harder - to scare them off.
 
Ahhhhhh.....yes! However, if you can't do 'the same' damage control) I realize now that when I got my lawyer who happened to be a lawyer who worked as a criminal lawyer at one time alongside my brother-in-law (with divorce proceedings in the courthouse they both worked in), he stepped back. WAY BACK. He was running for judge at the time (our situation squashed that) but he ran like that proverbial cockroach in the light when he realized my lawyer could do him severe damage. So it is in observing. Observation of behaviours - the lesson there was to stop being in MY head and go into HIS head to see what he was reacting to. I was too much in my own fear.

On the opposite end, my son happened to know he was a grow house operator and drug dealer. He called the police to let them know that he knew of a friend who bought from him (he wasn't a friend in fact so it was no problem if he went down as well as far as my son was concerned). The police refused to go hear my son because of my brother-in-law's status in the community. Society and status again.....
 
Don't have much time now, but I want you to look at your title again:
'Redefining'. What needs to be redefined in your own head? In your own life? In your own .... And how can you redefine other things, or cause them to be redefined? Status? Status is a fickle thing ... it takes only a rumour or two .... Will get back to this later.

Can you get in touch with the cockroach lawyer?
 
*Hides in corner shaking and shivering* Actually laughing so hard right now. Good switch of emotions thanks you. Prey (sic) tell, what would I ask him oh ridiculous one? Still laughing. OMFG!

CRAZY TALK!
 
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@FridayJones I love love love the distinction "Fighting for fun - fighting for need - fighting for cruelty." Awesome. I'm teaching about what distinctions are today and I needed a good one to start with and now I have it! How much more important can a distinction get? Plus the students will all be interested in it. Perfect.

Why do I get the label when clearly the things done to me were done by someone who is not at all right? Because I choose to get help and they don't? Is that why they aren't considered an ill person?

I speak to doctors about what they did and they say I am mentally ill? I don't hurt people! I don't smash small people around! I don't victimize others! I don't go out and seek vengeance. WTF? Is this not the hidden mental illness in this world? The one that nobody looks at? If it wasn't for them would I have a label of 'mentally ill'? If I was allowed to live my life without being a target to these people would I be all that I could be?

Seriously? What if all the perpetrators were called to task? Who would we be then?

To go back to the OP. It is an excellent set of questions - and a deep one about why individuals and institutions focus on the victim rather than the perpetrator. As if abuse were somehow compatible with "mental health" or "sanity."

In what follows I am using "mentally ill" in it's broadest sense that includes "mentally/emotionally damaged and/or challenged as well as organically mentally ill" in contrast to "overall mentally healthy."

On consideration, the blanket victim blaming you are questioning is a strange impersonal variant on that Joanna Russ logic - People with mental illness are often involved in "crazy" conflicts and get abused, statistically more often than non-mentally ill people. Perhaps it is the ever so basic mistake - correlation = causation. Here is how it might work: Because people with mental illness are disproportionately involved in "crazy" conflicts and situations of abuse, people (who don't pay very close attention at the best of times) jump from the fact that mental illness correlates with conflict/abuse to the causal claim that mental illness causes abuse/conflict. Ignoring the fact that some kinds of mental illness can be caused by abuse, and that most forms of mental illness tend to make a person a "good potential victim" in that the limitations often make it difficult for a person to defend her/himself. But then instead of seeing that the perpetrator is acting out a form of mental illness (almost always) "we" ignore it. Why? Because... then "we'd" have to deal with the perpetrators? Then "we'd" have to recognize that this is a systemic societal problem that everyone has to deal with. Which is pretty uncomfortable. So... zap. Gone. All it costs is blaming the victim.

Oh, and it might mean that even the people we want to believe are "the good guys" might ... do really really bad things. (see Ferguson's recent problems in the news... "cops, bad guys? surely not!" except... as @FridayJones points out, their actions are clearly and explicitly being driven by fear. So they are hurting and killing people disproportionate to need, and maybe sometimes out of cruelty.) It might even mean that some of the things we and our friends do are bad...

Honestly, I see all kinds of "low level abuse" of kids and students and employees. This culture that I live in (maybe most cultures so far) just don't have a very clear model of what it is to treat people with respect, never mind compassion. Just respect would be a huge improvement. It is apparently really really comfortable to believe that people in roles of authority are better than everyone else and so can be trusted. If only it were so.

Does Canada have a federal drug enforcement agency? (Like the US's DEA?) That you could call independently of the local cops to report the ex?
 
what would I ask him oh ridiculous one?

One suggestion:
"You and I know that my ex is an SOB of the first order, right? He is still harassing me and I live in fear. I don't want to any more. His reputation as above reproach in this community is the biggest obstacle to my being able to live without fear of him. I know XYZ about him. He has done PDQ before, during and after the divorce. What can I do to expose him for what he is, and make it safe for me to live in the open?"
 
that people in roles of authority are better than everyone else and so can be trusted.
This is imho, perpetuated by authority figures themselves, so that nobody can call them to task without being called 'crazy' for lack of a better word. Seriously, just pull the crazy card and watch everyone plugged their ears to the issues. It is a diamond scenario. Look at how long it took for the Catholic Church (I was raised Catholic so not ranting please this is not a blanket Catholic statement) still to recognize the gross misconduct against society that certain priests and higher ups were not and many times still not held accountable for. How much did people have to fight this to be heard because nobody wanted to hear it? So keep offering up the children and just keep moving the pedophiles. Now THAT is insane, which in turn causes many emotionally damaged people.

Does Canada have a federal drug enforcement agency? (Like the US's DEA?) That you could call independently of the local cops to report the ex?
Yes, the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) would be Canada's version of the DEA here. Good idea. Still a niggling in the back of my head that this will lead to hell for me if I even attempt to counter attack but I will work on that with all I have.

then "we'd" have to deal with the perpetrators? Then "we'd" have to recognize that this is a systemic societal problem that everyone has to deal with. Which is pretty uncomfortable.
This is exactly the basis for this posting. Perhaps this comes down to the thought that those in authority do actually like it to be this way or they too may be called to task (or don't see it because they are in fact cut from the same cloth).

If I have a teacher who watches me get punched over and over again and refuses to do anything about it although they know it is happening - what recourse do I have if I get expelled for punching the puncher? This is how it feels to me. Like everyone knows who threw the first punch but if I dare to say or do anything about it I am the one who suffers.

There is another post out there that I answered today about a woman who is homeless right now. I hear all the time that 'mentally ill' people are generally homeless. Is that true? I have been stable for a year now after three years of instability - and I have to tell you there is nothing like homelessness to make one seem mentally ill. Again I come back to 'a normal reaction to an abnormal situation'.
Get rid of the abnormal idiots (rant here - I can feel it) and I bet most of us (whether organically or anywhere along the spectrum you mentioned @Eleanor - mentally ill or not) would most likely be much less reactionary and live a very fulfilling and happy life.
 
Oh, and it might mean that even the people we want to believe are "the good guys" might ... do really really bad things. (see Ferguson's recent problems in the news... "cops, bad guys? surely not!" except... as @FridayJones points out, their actions are clearly and explicitly being driven by fear. So they are hurting and killing people disproportionate to need, and maybe sometimes out of cruelty.) It might even mean that some of the things we and our friends do are bad...
Side-note: The USA seems to be gun crazy and trigger happy. Look at the second amendment of your constitution: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Ordinary citizens = militia? Oh, well, okay then. So when this goes haywire, as it does, regularly, it is very convenient to blame it on race. How many shootings were there in that week? Why only a hullabaloo in Ferguson? Same thing: 'we' don't want to take responsibility.

Okay, back to topic.
 
Oh good. I get to get out of my second amendment lecture... :-) but I can't stand not giving a plug for the history. For all you American History buff's out there: Ray Raphael's "The First American Revolution: Before Lexington and Concord." It is the story of the non-violent takeover of civil authority in the Mass Bay Colony in the summer of 1774. Lexington and Concord was the beginning of the counter-revolution by the Brits. Read about it and you will learn what a "well-regulated militia" means. I don't think we could muster one today.

I think it is that homeless people are very often mentally ill. Though what is cause and what effect... It was certainly the case in California that when Gov. Regan decided to close the state mental hospitals an awful lot of those folks ended up homeless. So... what is the cause there?

PM me the info @shimmerz, I'll happily "drop a dime" on the SOB. I am glad it is only a "niggling," and I think it would be empowering for you to make the call.

Plato teaches us that if a person stays in power long enough they will be corrupted. Specifically, they will start indulging their vices because they will (a largely structural inevitability) eventually get surrounded by "yes men" and manipulative opportunists. So they become bad, because they don't have the feedback necessary to keep their vices in check or develop their virtues. Even the virtuous man will become vicious and evil if he stays in power long enough. So, no surprise in the Catholic church, or any other effectively monarchical or dictatorial system.

You think you can call the lawyer guy?
 
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