Other Kidnapping, Rape And/or Torture

[Beachlife09]

What makes it torture, the aspects that were torture, is that they were specifically meant to cause a desired reaction in me,

Yes, that's the main difference I think between abuse and torture. Torture is planned and has a goal (like my tormentors' goals were to break me and to make me believe that I belonged to them and that I was their "slave"), abuse is not pre-determined and the reasoning is very different.

I was abused, also, during that same time period. That's the being punched and raped and dragged around. Also, some of the humiliation.

Same here. But I've heard before that rape counts as a method of torture. I don't know though... I've often counted it separate from my torture.

But just like there is big-D Depression and little-d depression, I think there's Torture and then there's torturous, torturing, all small-t. I think people don't really think about it.

Exactly! Many people say that they have depression too (even though I've told them I have PTSD) and I'm just thinking "it's not the same". They really don't understand. Yes, and now when they pressure you and ask what happened, they think you're over exaggerating the word just like they do.... but you're not... I guess people are gonna say and believe whatever they want to regardless of what we tell them. But they clearly know more about what happened to us than we do! Obviously, because they were there. (Read last two sentences in GREAT sarcasm.) :rolleyes:

@RussH .....Well then this new revelation's gonna take some getting used to....

 

[joeylittle]

Exactly! Many people say that they have depression too (even though I've told them I have PTSD) and I'm just thinking "it's not the same". They really don't understand.

Well, to be fair - they might have depression. I've had clinical (capital-D) depression since childhood, and major depressive disorder for a number of years now. I had that before PTSD. So, while they might not understand PTSD, they might understand mood disorders - and we do have overlapping symptom sets.

Yes, and now when they pressure you and ask what happened, they think you're over exaggerating the word just like they do.... but you're not... I guess people are gonna say and believe whatever they want to regardless of what we tell them.

I just wanted to say that maybe you should try just not telling people. I know that might sound really counter-intuitive, but I think you can ask yourself what you are looking to get from them that they are not giving to you? I'm really just guessing, because I have never had the experience you've had, of telling people and having them minimize. But I can say that looking to others to provide validation is a very dicey proposition. First off, because it might mean that you aren't really accepting things yourself, and/or second, it can put you into another upsetting situation (them minimizing) that might just make you feel worse.

I can't remember - are you working with a therapist?

 

[Deleted member 28740]

But I can say that looking to others to provide validation is a very dicey proposition. First off, because it might mean that you aren't really accepting things yourself, and/or second, it can put you into another upsetting situation (them minimizing) that might just make you feel worse.

Family and friends saw the changes in my life. Functioning well, to zombie. My dad sent me a card at one point, it was of a sleeping beauty style painting (lady lying on a slab). Note included was kind, wake up my girl. I had not shared with my family what happened to me. When I did, the reaction was hear no evil, relegated to a bad relationship. Then a shaming, and shunning. Black sheep status. Damaged goods and then you become even more withdrawing. With the primary care Docs, depression big or small D, pills for that. They did not work. Rape was mentioned, but not one considered the anxiety presenting or PTSD. You can control to some degree in waking, not in sleep. And my sleep is still conscious of thoughts, physical sensations, in deeper sleep flashbacks. Light sleep dreams are like writing a book and the dialogue, some times some visual, most plot and dialogue. Part way though a book I am reading in my light sleep, I write the next chapter or two. Or it is the constant churn of the loses, and stresses. No work, no home (soon to be homeless), not savings or credit to live on. Fear for my mind and my ability to survive.

 

[Beachlife09]

I just wanted to say that maybe you should try just not telling people.

I'm trying to start backing off now after realizing no one wants to talk about it, but it's a little hard not to when these are the people that live with me. (aka my family)

I can't remember - are you working with a therapist?

Still in the search for one, they're pretty scarce around my area.

 

[Kefira]

I agree... and I guess it all just boils down to the fact that they just don't understand. And I guess, in a way, that's good that they don't... I don't wish this true horror on anyone.

This is how I feel when I come up against pushback when I use the word torture. I've been holding off replying because I do not want to offend. I was not physically held captive: they transported me between my home and their place of operation, but for a period of about 8 months I was sexually trafficked and torture was involved due to the people I ended up encountering and their particular interests.

I remember looking up the UN definitions of torture a few years ago and feeling all the same reservations because it was not political. I think it further compounded with my 'of course I can't have PTSD as a civilian' feelings. Now I was really going to start claiming torture? But it was. And it's been helpful to give it a name that isn't 'just' abuse. Because it was systematic and brutal physically and psychologically. And to avoid an appropriate label for it just to make everyone more comfortable isn't doing a service to myself or my healing.

I also have used this document: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ extensively and did an exercise of writing my own personal version. Perhaps it will be of some use to someone. I really felt after my experience as though every bit of worth even on a level of being a living creature had been stripped down and so I had to start from the very basic.

 

[Beachlife09]

@Kefira I am so sorry that happened to you. You are very strong to have survived your trauma, don't ever doubt it. :hug:

I think it further compounded with my 'of course I can't have PTSD as a civilian' feelings. Now I was really going to start claiming torture?

I felt exactly as you do a few months ago... heck, I still feel that way sometimes. It's such a serious thing to claim and it's not as common as abuse in our culture. But it does happen- we are obvious proof.

Because it was systematic and brutal physically and psychologically

I think that is one of the differences between abuse and torture too, there is such an extreme psychological terror that isn't quite there (or as extreme) in abuse. Not trying to downgrade abuse though, that's still very traumatic.

And to avoid an appropriate label for it just to make everyone more comfortable isn't doing a service to myself or my healing.

That is what I'm trying to make sure I do, I've got to focus on my healing. And catering to other peoples' views about what happened to me is just making me be in denial, not helping me heal. Confronting that what happened to us as torture is a hard thing to do though.

I really felt after my experience as though every bit of worth even on a level of being a living creature had been stripped down and so I had to start from the very basic.

I feel the same way... I don't even feel human after what I've gone through... I feel like a different species...

 

[Friday]

I just stumbled across this organization (ironic, as I have a girlfriend who has gone to one of their treatment facilities in the EU)... And just wanted to get it up here on this thread, even if I'm the only one who didn't know about them!

International Rehabilitation Council for Torture victims
http://www.irct.org

& a list of their counseling programs & treatment facilities by region. Over 140 worldwide.
http://www.irct.org/about-us/the-members/find-irct-members/all-members-by-region.aspx

I simply had no idea. But then, this is one of two areas of my PTSD I avoid like the plague.

 

[Weemie]

got two outta three. i dunno. held against my will but it was only for a couple days at a time. every day, but only consecutively on weekends, five years. how many weekends are in five years? not every weekend. it's not a constant. it's not a constant like days, weeks, years. it was daily but, you know.

i wasn't a prisoner. i could have left, only then i'd have to choose. me, or the safety of my family? choices, choices. when you're that young, you think it's a real choice. they hurt you, they sure can hurt your family. when one of them walks around in your house and sleeps in your mother's bed. you think it's a real choice. so you stay, you go back, you let them hollow you out.

hell, no one would believe any of the shit i got to say anyway. and sometimes i wonder if there's even a point to talking about it. The Worst Shit happened. it was less than human, big f*cking deal. what's talking about it going to do, ramp me up and give people the opportunity to crush me down, eviscerate me? no f*ckin' thanks. when i was younger i disclosed to a couple people. it's funny, when you say you're raped, people are like, oh yeah, that sucks. when you devolve and devolve and devolve, people would rather not believe it happened. it protects them, from thinking real people really do that to other real people.

once when i was on crack i told my dad a single thing, one of those devolved things. because he was watching porn in front of me (extremely cracked out tbh) and i kinda flipped my lid, turned myself inside out. i dunno if he even remembers. probably thought i was psychotic. hahahahaha.

i don't know if it's torture, but i've been restrained. held down, hurt and harmed. hours on end. years. had one sociopath “try something he saw on tv” once. god that f*cking scene in orphan black, haha. hilarious.

about a 20 out of 10 rn, gonna put this down.

 

[joeylittle]

Those links are great, @FridayJones - it's so helpful when you can find a central organizing agency for stuff. It's like you found NAMI for torture. :tup:
(It's only slightly tacky to use the thumbs up guy in this context, right?)

I've kind of given up looking. Ultimately, that organization is focused on what I would rightfully call 'the real torture problem' - which is in line with the UN definition, and the specifics of experience that go along with being captive and abused in war zones, dictatorships, regime-situations, refugee situations, things along the geo-political-religious line.

I can't tell if I'm right about this, but it seems like there is something different about treating torture in a domestic/kidnapping kind of situation. I don't know. I've been feeling really bad about this lately, just not understanding how to compare/contrast specifically with the elements of time and distance.

I was held (had to erase the word 'only' that I just automatically typed, but see how I'm being sneaky and saying it anyway?) - I was held for what now appears to be 5 days, ish. Might have been a little less, but probably not.

There must be a difference between that and something over 30 days. I'm picking 30 only because it's a PTSD number. I did not think I was ever leaving, but I was also not there for very long. I think I barely adjusted to it as a new 'normal' - but just barely. Then again, I don't know what it would mean to have adjusted to it, or if that's even relevant.

And I knew I was in my home country. This didn't mean I thought I would be found, but there's got to be something different about the effect of distance, I'd think...maybe?

I've tried reading the books written by other kidnap survivors, but they were held for so much longer than I was. I've come across news accounts of people held in situations that most resemble mine, a kind of sexual/deviant/torture box thing, with multiple levels of assault and also mental stuff - but they, too, were there longer.

Maybe the real question of this whole post is, why have I become fixated on length of time? Does it matter? I know for the time I was there I didn't have much time 'off'. Interaction was pretty constant. Oh, I don't know. I'm just always wondering if there is something that someone might have written, or studied, or devised - some protocol, or insight, or technique, or even tips for - taking someone like me through trauma therapy.

Then again, things are mostly OK on that front. Progress is happening. Just, sometimes I don't know.

 

[Friday]

Those links are great, @FridayJones - it's so helpful when you can find a central organizing agency for stuff. It's like you found NAMI for torture. :tup:
(It's only slightly tacky to use the thumbs up guy in this context, right?)
.

I have a longer post I keep having to back away from... But this just cracked me up :D

 

[joeylittle]

Hey, @FridayJones - sometimes, you just gotta laugh, right? :p

 

[Friday]

Hell yes.